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5 passenger legal?

sermis

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Temple, TX
Ok I added a soft top gunner station to the truck. So now it's a 5 passenger. If the gunner is attached with the safety restraint (seatbelt) as it's attached to the floor. Does it now qualify as a 5th seat legal for road use? 32 years and I've never thought about it. Reading the law I don't see why not. Whatcha think?


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riderdan

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Central Kansas
It varies by state. In several states where I've lived, if there's a passenger seat with a seatbelt, then a passenger can legally sit there while the vehicle is traveling on the street. Civilian hummers had a bench seat that fit between the two rears as an option, which would make it a six passenger vehicle. I'm curious as to why this matters? Is it a tax thing?
 

Action

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Put yourself in that seat.....would you want to be there when the humvee hit something head-on at 55 mph?
I don't know how that restraint holds the gunner in, but if it attaches to the floor in only one spot, it will act like a pivot point. The front of the turret will go into the passenger's chest and face.
I figured the "restraint" is used to keep the gunner in place during offroading or combat, not in case of an accident.
 

Lawdog734

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Put yourself in that seat.....would you want to be there when the humvee hit something head-on at 55 mph?
I don't know how that restraint holds the gunner in, but if it attaches to the floor in only one spot, it will act like a pivot point. The front of the turret will go into the passenger's chest and face.
I figured the "restraint" is used to keep the gunner in place during offroading or combat, not in case of an accident.
I agree 100% - HMMWV's can and do roll over, I would not want to be standing in that turret in the event the vehicle rolled.
 

ari

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dacula Ga
I spent plenty of time manning the turret in Iraq when I was in so I know the risks involved. Here in the US i would consider it less dangerous than riding a bike and if u hit something going 55 or roll in a Humvee no-one in the vehicle will be having a good day especially with a metal dash in the face. I say go for it as you are restrained in the vehicle with the harness but I guess it counting as a seat belt is open for interpretation by the cop that pulls you over.
 

Bravojmc

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Do yourself a favor and DONT risk your passengers lives and the Hmmwv communities chances of getting bad press... We all know how the press likes to CRUSH everything they touch! Keep the turret seat for shows, parades, and parking lots...
Just my 2 cents...
 

Lawdog734

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I spent plenty of time manning the turret in Iraq when I was in so I know the risks involved. Here in the US i would consider it less dangerous than riding a bike and if u hit something going 55 or roll in a Humvee no-one in the vehicle will be having a good day especially with a metal dash in the face. I say go for it as you are restrained in the vehicle with the harness but I guess it counting as a seat belt is open for interpretation by the cop that pulls you over.
Ari, while I agree that there are things that certainly could be considered more "dangerous" that are done everyday, common sense doesn't necessarily clarify the correlation between two laws such as why you're required to wear a seatbelt as an occupant of a vehicle, but it's ok that there are no restraints for motorcycles. If they're ok with you ejecting from a motorcycle, I suppose the same should apply for a vehicle. In Georgia, by reading Title Code 40-8-76.1 - my interpretation is that you aren't even required to have a gunners restraint system. The only time you're required to wear a restraint is as a front seat occupant or if you're in a category that requires them regardless such as children. I can't find anything about body parts being within the confines of a vehicle.

A properly working seatbelt is supposed to keep the passenger restrained in the seat so that they don't impact anything else in the vehicle. Vehicle safety or construction standards aside, a properly working seatbelt should keep you from getting a face full of windshield or dash board, so while "no one will be having a good day" is true - you can't tell me that someone properly restrained to a seat is in just as unfortunate of an an area as a guy standing in a turret. The gunner restraint system is nothing more than a tether - it keeps you from flying out of the vehicle, but it doesn't keep you from bouncing your ribs, back, head off the turret ring, gun mount, etc.

I'll let my kids ride in the top turret in the pasture next to my house, but I sure as heck won't do it on the road - child or adult.
 
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ari

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Ari, while I agree that there are things that certainly could be considered more "dangerous" that are done everyday, common sense doesn't necessarily clarify the correlation between two laws such as why you're required to wear a seatbelt as an occupant of a vehicle, but it's ok that there are no restraints for motorcycles. If they're ok with you ejecting from a motorcycle, I suppose the same should apply for a vehicle. In Georgia, by reading Title Code 40-8-76.1 - my interpretation is that you aren't even required to have a gunners restraint system. The only time you're required to wear a restraint is as a front seat occupant or if you're in a category that requires them regardless such as children. I can't find anything about body parts being within the confines of a vehicle.

A properly working seatbelt is supposed to keep the passenger restrained in the seat so that they don't impact anything else in the vehicle. Vehicle safety or construction standards aside, a properly working seatbelt should keep you from getting a face full of windshield or dash board, so while "no one will be having a good day" is true - you can't tell me that someone properly restrained to a seat is in just as unfortunate of an an area as a guy standing in a turret. The gunner restraint system is nothing more than a tether - it keeps you from flying out of the vehicle, but it doesn't keep you from bouncing your ribs, back, head off the turret ring, gun mount, etc.

I'll let my kids ride in the top turret in the pasture next to my house, but I sure as heck won't do it on the road - child or adult.
I dont totally disagree with you very valid points there. Now I would not ride in a turret on certain roads like the freeway or busy roads with the crazy drivers we got here in GA or elsewhere and wouldent let anyone else cause of the liability factor. However IF its legal and the OP wants to do it and his adult gunner knows the risks I feel he should do as he wishes.
 

Presale

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Some wild comments here. Personally I wouldn't want to be anywhere in a HMMWV when a 55mph head on collision occurred. Without airbags there was 90% mortality rate with head on collisions.
 

fllaw1

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Action that pisses me off they (KY) write something like that and not issue a warning and put you on your way. Make all look bad. To your question of "legal eagle" some facets to your question have been answered, some states req just the Front seats be belted and some have added back seat pass under 18 also will be belted etc. So the question would be state specific, however the DHSMV who governs all states on these does have allowances, like the old camaros and muscle cars from the 60's that did not come with seat belts. Some states are going above this now and requiring the vehicle have seat belts installed to pass inspection to be road worthy. So you may be ok on the "makeshift" seat belt but not probably the safest thing to do unless your in a parade or something low speed. Another question also maybe does the position allow the person to extend out of the vehicle which you will be stopped for and should. I love the guy standing up behind the blast doors through the roof. Gets stopped on the road and says "Oh but the vehicle was designed that way from the factory". "Enhance your calm John Spartan" you are not at war shooting the 50 cal, your in Florida on I-95 being a dumb a## letting a passenger do that. :D
 
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BLK HMMWV

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Pasadena California
I have a bunch of harnesses. Maybe even one of the floor plates with the retractor. The unit I have now is part of the gunners platform and comes up out of the big oval hole in the platform. The old one mounted to the floor behind the platform.
I only use it in parades for the guy in the turret and only when asked to. I don't believe they were very popular in the service. They do have a quick release mechanism but most guys I talked to that had to use them said if given a choice they wouldn't use them . It slows down your egress when the time comes to bail out.
 

Augi

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SF Bay Area
I have a PowerPoint presentation talking about those harnesses somewhere. They were designed to prevent the gunner from being ejected in an IED blast. That they definitely will do, but not much else. Army regs say Kevlar and vest must be worn when in any tactical vehicle.

I worked with a guy who told me a story about his time in. He was on an ftx and was driver for the company commander or something. The commander was ordered to recon some area Now! so they were blasting over berms at high speed. They came over there top of one and there was some kind of ditch at the top that the truck nosedived into and stopped dead. The gunner did a faceplant into the .50 and was knocked out cold.

Later he said a motor pool guy asked him what the **** he did because the trucks frame rails were folded up several degrees.


Augi
 

Bravojmc

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i have a powerpoint presentation talking about those harnesses somewhere. They were designed to prevent the gunner from being ejected in an ied blast. That they definitely will do, but not much else. Army regs say kevlar and vest must be worn when in any tactical vehicle.

I worked with a guy who told me a story about his time in. He was on an ftx and was driver for the company commander or something. The commander was ordered to recon some area now! So they were blasting over berms at high speed. They came over there top of one and there was some kind of ditch at the top that the truck nosedived into and stopped dead. The gunner did a faceplant into the .50 and was knocked out cold.

Later he said a motor pool guy asked him what the **** he did because the trucks frame rails were folded up several degrees.


Augi
woof!
 
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