5 ton vs. deuce offroad

[texas-5-ton]

Can someone tell me how the 5 ton will compare to the deuce in offroad conditions such as mud, sand, and soft ground?

 

[builder77]

Well there were some earlier threads about which is better for a fire truck which has similar needs. The deuce does not have power steering, so enjoy your thumbs while you have them. The stock taller tires the 5ton has would be nice. It was also suggested that the extra power of the 5ton was important, but it was mainly for water and extra gear.

 

[ken]

Putting a duece in a mud hole is like throwing a rock into a pond. It will sink fast! Put a 5 ton in a mud hole and it's like throwing a boulder into a pond. You get the idea. We use dueces in the FD because they are easier to turn around in the woods. The longer the truck is the tougher it is to put it where you need it. Espically when you have inexperenced drivers. And since they are lighter they don't sink as bad. But that's here in southeast texas. Your terrain is probally alot different. If your using a skid unit make sure you put the tank as close to the cab as possable. Otherwise it's not going to turn as soon as it gets a bit muddy. The front tires will just plow and the rears will contue to push the truck straight.

 

[DDoyle]

Using single tires - 11:00 - 20 on a deuce, or 14:00 - 20 on a five ton, will improve performance in mud and sand as compared to dual rear wheels. I've successfully stuck both a deuce and a five ton (within minutes of each other) - and can tell you its much easier to get the deuce unstuck than it is the 5-ton!

The turning radius of the five ton could be a problem, especially if you have to back up and make turns incrementally - thus working the ground and creating a quagmire.

Many of our local FD grossly overload the trucks - then complain that they are underpowered - then turn up the fuel/repower the trucks and complain that driveline components fail - so beware.

Regards,
David

 

[LC]

The best thing is being able to lock in the front axle on a deuce. It takes less work to get a deuce up to speed and keep it moving. The 5 tons we have are slow compared to a deuce.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I seem to remember a story about a guy just trying to retrieve his riding mower and subequently sticking a deuce then a 5 ton wrecker. Glad that wasn't me! LOL

 

[cranetruck]

That may have been Mr Doyle, story in a past issue of MVM.

 

[mangus580]

That actually made it into MVM? I just remember seeing it on Mil-Veh (and I think its here someplace now too)

 

[BKubu]

I don't have much experience off-road, but I will relate one story that occured a few years back (the last time the "Aberdeen" show was held at Churchville). For those that remember, it rained quite a bit and all of the trucks entering and leaving the show really churned up the fields. In spots, the mud was a foot or more deep. The show organizers called in a tri-axle dump with about 40 tons of crushed stone. The intention was to drop the stone in a few of the more serious mud holes. Anyway, as you would expect, that tri-axle made it about half way into the first field before it became mired. A couple of deuces tried to pull the truck out, but to no avail (not enough a** to 'em). Someone came and got me because I was told that I had "the biggest truck out here and the show organizers want some help." So, I fired the M813A1 up. My M813A1 was a former USMC truck with 1400 X 20 super singles and lockers. I drove over to the tri-axle as if the field were dry. I hooked up to the truck and proceeded to snap the chain because I tried to jerk the tri-axle out. The chain was no where near stout enough to handle that force. A friend suggested that I pull the dump at an angle in the front. This did the trick. I never laid off of the throttle and pulled that baby right out to the street. Sorry...I don't have any digital pics.

Given the fact that most deuces do not have lockers, I'd take a 5 ton with them over a deuce any day. Also, a truck with an automatic has an advantage, too.

 

[M1075]

Can someone tell me how the 5 ton will compare to the deuce in offroad conditions such as mud, sand, and soft ground?

To answer your question, they will respond similarly, but I would give a slight edge to a deuce because it is lighter.

If I was choosing a truck to operate on mud, sand, and soft ground, I would start with a deuce with an airshift front end. Then I would add air-assist steering, rear lockers and super single tires. With increased ground clearance, less weight, better tires, and more traction, it could outperform a stock 5 ton offroad in many ways.

If I was choosing a truck to use as a fire truck, I would get a 5 ton. When hauling water, there is no substitute for the higher weight capacity. Also, standard power steering is a nice feature on the 5 tons. I have used deuces for years, because they were more easily obtainable. They do well, but 5 tons are better suited.

 

[M1075]

Given the fact that most deuces do not have lockers, I'd take a 5 ton with them over a deuce any day.

I agree with Bruce. A truck with lockers will greatly outperform one without. Nothing else will improve the offroad capability as much.

 

[Towman2277]

Heres my point of view, almost the same as above!! As you know my truck is a "Bridge Truck", 5-ton and it has lockers and super singles. A local city has a duece on 11:00's with no lockers, with air-shift front axle. My pal has tried to go where I can, and I just constantly have to keep pulling him out! It's not drive error neither, as I drove it, and told him (I think I hurt his feelings) "Man, this thing will get stick in everything!!" Depending what you drive in, is how you "drive" the truck also. You will not put the tranny in low and "creep" through the deep mud pits. You'd better be in low range, 2nd/3rd and "spin" the tires to clean the mud out of the lugs to keep forward motion at it's max. If we were crossing the desert (sand), i'd wanna duece!! For the lighter weight. 'mud? give me a 5-ton with 14o's are better, and move back and watch!! Just my !!

 

[cranetruck]

You knew this was coming.
I'd like to have a test of chains vs lockers one day. Chains offer unbelievable traction on slippery surfaces, even ice where lockers probably woudn't help that much.

 

[Towman2277]

I'd have to say in my opinion since chains is an "actual" traction improvement, it'd probably be the winner. Now that you mentioned it Bjorn, i'm sure someone will attempt a test!

 

[JDToumanian]

If I was choosing a truck to operate on mud, sand, and soft ground, I would start with a deuce with an airshift front end.

It's clear to me that lockers increase performance in mud to a large degree, but on sand (which I have in abundance out here in the desert), the air shift front end of a deuce is almost a necessity... When I had a sprag transfer case installed, when the front would start to bog down, the rear would hop violently, and offer no assistance. With the air shift transfer case (and it's 1-to-1 ratio from front to rear) my deuce now seems to 'float' on sand, and I have crawled all over the desert, even through dry washes with sand so soft your shoes sink in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbEdK62SLp8

A side note to the video clip - I stalled out on the hill because I tried to go up it in 3rd (low) and ran out of h.p. not traction. If I were in 2nd I am confident I wouldn't have had to back down.

My 5-ton has not gone off road yet, but my feeling is that it is heavier, more cumbersome and on sand it would have the hopping problem due to the different ratio from front to rear.

Regards,
Jon

 

[BFR]

ok who wants to be the first to try this?

 

[Towman2277]

Jon is correct. 100%. I have lockers and super singles, and a sprag engage front. Sand is not my friend!! But MUD needs to look out!!! I'll go in any mud pit, but the sand is for the duece's!!

 

[cranetruck]

Jon, do you air down for the sand?

 

[gimpyrobb]

M1075,Is it common for the fire trucks to have duals on the front axle?!

 

[JDToumanian]

Jon, do you air down for the sand?

Yes, but not as low as I could / should... I aired them down to 25 psi, I'm afraid to go lower because my tires are so old and weathered. I think if they flex too much they will fail.

New tires are definitely in the 2007 truck budget!

Jon