5kw CTMGSA help needed

[2deuce]

I have 2 of these on a trailer. What I'm concerned with is the injection pump on each. They have been sitting along time unused. I noticed in another thread on these generators that the single cylinder Deutz diesel injection pump should be checked to make certain it moves freely. How should I do that?
I had a MEP002a, that I turned over to check that the engine was free, before I knew about the IP sticking problem. I don't want to make that mistake again.
Thanks

 

[2deuce]

The plate on the engine says it's a F1L 208 F.
7.8 KW at 3600 RPM

 

[Guyfang]

How long, is long?

The pumps are a compleatly different design. And If it was me, I would get some Seafoam and add it to your fuel system. Then start it up. I worked on many of these sets and never had a problem with long term storage sets. they started right up.

 

[2deuce]

Probably about 18 years. Mice liked the fiberglass insulation, but after vacuuming that out it looks like new in there. One generator has 199 hours, the other 56. I saw another post where it was noted that if you don't make sure the IP is free you will damage it if it's stuck. I didn't want to take any chances.
Where is the oil checked? I didn't see a dip stick.
Thanks

 

[2Pbfeet]

+1 on SeaFoam. If you are really concerned, pull the injector and let it sit in carburetor cleaner. Those engines were used all over and are pretty bullet proof in my experience, but I've never dealt with one that had sat for 18 years.

 

[2deuce]

Not sure but from reading other posts, if you can move the plunger...I'm thinking throttle, it's not stuck?

 

[2deuce]

The rain slowed so I removed the tarp for a closer look. The throttle actuator moves freely and the cold start button does as well. Is there a test I can do, an inspection possibly, that would show that the IP is stuck or not without removing the IP?
I did find where the dip stick should be. If anyone has a parts engine, I could use a dip stick.

Thanks

 

[Chainbreaker]

Not sure about the Deutz fuel deliver system configuration. However, if your concerned about the fuel delivery system going into IJ Pump, or internals of IJ Pump, being gunked up, I might suggest installing a new fuel filter element with 100% SeaFoam in the last filter before IJ Pump. Then prime system with Seafoam in it allowing it to pump for a couple minutes or so, & then letting it sit overnight or longer before attempting a startup.

 

[2deuce]

What I'm concerned with more than the anything else is the IP pump. Seafoam could help but the tight tolerances inside the pump keep it out if it's stuck. I had a stuck pump on a JD tractor, and there was nothing that could be done to even get it apart. The shaft was sheared on it.
I will look for a manual pump, or if there is a priming function that doesn't involve turning over the engine.
If anyone has had one of these pumps apart, and knows if there is a way to check it to see if it's stuck without removing it from the engine that would be ideal. I could try to remove it to inspect it, but I don't have a manual. I could try to start it, after a Seafoam treatment, but there is risk in that. I would like to confirm the pump is not stuck before I attempt that.

 

[2Pbfeet]

What I'm concerned with more than the anything else is the IP pump. Seafoam could help but the tight tolerances inside the pump keep it out if it's stuck. I had a stuck pump on a JD tractor, and there was nothing that could be done to even get it apart. The shaft was sheared on it.
I will look for a manual pump, or if there is a priming function that doesn't involve turning over the engine.
If anyone has had one of these pumps apart, and knows if there is a way to check it to see if it's stuck without removing it from the engine that would be ideal. I could try to remove it to inspect it, but I don't have a manual. I could try to start it, after a Seafoam treatment, but there is risk in that. I would like to confirm the pump is not stuck before I attempt that.

I don't know about your engine, but moving the throttle does not always mean that the pump volume regulator is moving.

Have you thought of buying a manual? @Guyfang found a few on the bay site awhile back.

Deutz engines are generally self priming. I haven't seen this model in a long time, but I don't recall a priming pump. That is why I suggested that you consider trying to turn it over by hand. I would remove the injector from the cylinder so it doesn't try to start, and while you are there put a little oil in the cylinder head for the rings. Or just pull the pump try to move it by hand, and let it soak for a bit if it seems sticky.

All the best

2Pbfeet

 

[2deuce]

I have a MEP002a that I checked to see that it wasn't stuck. It wasn't, but by turning the engine a couple inches, it's very common to damage the IP, I was told. There are no replacement parts for the one I have. I haven't moved this engine yet out of that same fear of damage. I know they are not the same IP running both engine brands, but this time I want to make sure it's good to go before I turn it over.

 

[2Pbfeet]

I have a MEP002a that I checked to see that it wasn't stuck. It wasn't, but by turning the engine a couple inches, it's very common to damage the IP, I was told. There are no replacement parts for the one I have. I haven't moved this engine yet out of that same fear of damage. I know they are not the same IP running both engine brands, but this time I want to make sure it's good to go before I turn it over.

I would pull the IP then. It is the more certain option.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Guyfang]

I have explained before. The IP in the CTMGSA-5 is compleatly different that the MEP-002A. The IP will function, or not. More like the MEP-802A. If it dosn't work, remove and soak in carb cleaner.

I will post the TM 9-6115-654-24P in the TM forum. On the cover its is listed as a DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: C. This is in fact false. Change #2 to the TM makes it a DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: A

 

[2deuce]

I was going to attempt starting the generator, but when I pulled the dip stick out, water gushed out. It was full of water up to the oil filter. I don't think the engine is stuck. It moved a little. I sprayed lubricant in the exhaust and removed the injector it's soaking. Before I do anything else, I will need an oil filter. I'll see how well it turns over tomorrow with the injector out.
Water came in through the exhaust, far as I know it always had a bucket over the exhaust. However it happened, it was full of water today.

 

[2deuce]

I have explained before. The IP in the CTMGSA-5 is compleatly different that the MEP-002A. The IP will function, or not. More like the MEP-802A. If it dosn't work, remove and soak in carb cleaner.

I will post the TM 9-6115-654-24P in the TM forum. On the cover its is listed as a DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: C. This is in fact false. Change #2 to the TM makes it a DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: A

In trying to figure out how the IP operates, I pulled off the cover held on with 2 cap screws. Under that there is a spring, that I think should push down on a rod that opens fuel to the IP. When there is no power to the shutoff solenoid it holds the spring from opening the fuel. When I pull the solenoid back manually I think the spring should open the fuel, but nothing moves. Is this stuck? or is there something else that needs to release the spring in conjunction with the solenoid? I've sprayed lubricant in there, and everything looks clean without any corrosion. I haven't more pressure than my fingers can give, but it feels solid. I don't want to damage anything by prying too hard if that's possible. I could try some tapping on it if it should move as is. Thanks

 

[2deuce]

I determined that the spring should open the valve, it's just stuck. There are 2 generators on the trailer. I took the same cover off the other generator engine, and it was stuck too. Pushing as hard as I could with my thumb where the spring would push, this valve popped open, and working it has made it operate easily. This sticking problem tells me the IP is likely stuck too. If it won't be harmed by attempting to start the engine, I could try it to see if it pumps fuel.

 

[2deuce]

After taking a break from this project, I pulled out the injection pump today. I'm going to soak it in penetrant, and carb cleaner. I can't actuate the pump by hand making me believe it's stuck. My question is should I be able to move it freely by hand? When I took out the 3 nuts holding it down there was some spring pressure pushing the pump up off the studs, but it only moved about 1/4 inch, and I think that pressure was on the plunger, and it's not moving. When the plunger is freely moving, how far does it travel?

Thanks

 

[Guyfang]

I cant tell you how much it should move, just that it should move. Let it soak a few days. Then try and actuate it.

 

[2deuce]

It's been soaking for a couple days, and I can tell it's stuck. Although I can't look down inside the engine, there must be a cam down in there that the roller on the bottom of the pump rides on. I figure the pump should move a half inch or a little more. The portion of the pump that moves with the roller does move in and out, but if I push it in, it stays in, and I need to pull it back out with my fingers. When I push it in there is no resistance until the last 16th inch of travel where I feel some spring resistance, but the spring does not push the plunger back down for the next cycle. That is where I feel the sticking is occurring. Not sure what to do, so it is back soaking. There is something at the top of the pump that will screw out to access the other side of the suspected spring/sticking area. I may need to push on that, if possible, if more soaking fails.

 

[Guyfang]

Work the lever back and forth, with the pump in the fluid. try and get the fluid into the pump and then let it sit a little longer.