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6.2 and 6.5 engine questions

SteelNinja

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My 6.2 with 29k miles is knocking ( ugggh) , So a friend of mine has a 6.5 T .. it also has a knock - but the whole top end was rebuilt and he's selling me the engine complete with turbo , brackets everything for $500... now my question - I want to tear it down and put in a steel crank ( I can find one for a 6.5 but not a 6.2) this the reason I wanted the 6.5 - to build the piss out of it . Polish the rods, balance etc, stud everything, ( I have built a ton of gas engines but zero diesels) so my question is - can I build the 6.5 to have more power than the 6.2 without the turbo setup ? I'd like the turbo but not sure how much of a pain it will be to install it .
Does head porting help?
any difference in the cams 6.2vs 6.5 ( I would think maybe the turbo cam has less overlap?)
can the heads be interchanged?
is there a HP rocker arm set up for these?
any advice would be appreciated !!

also while I'm asking doing it - I found a 4L80 Trans - ( I will do this for sure) will the front and read drive shafts need re-worked?
 

NDT

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You can do every performance trick in the book on a NA 6.5 and it will still be pitiful. If the 6.5 has the side mount turbocharger, that is what to build.
 

Rutjes

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My 6.2 with 29k miles is knocking ( ugggh) , So a friend of mine has a 6.5 T .. it also has a knock - but the whole top end was rebuilt and he's selling me the engine complete with turbo , brackets everything for $500... now my question - I want to tear it down and put in a steel crank ( I can find one for a 6.5 but not a 6.2) this the reason I wanted the 6.5 - to build the piss out of it . Polish the rods, balance etc, stud everything, ( I have built a ton of gas engines but zero diesels) so my question is - can I build the 6.5 to have more power than the 6.2 without the turbo setup ? I'd like the turbo but not sure how much of a pain it will be to install it .
Does head porting help?
any difference in the cams 6.2vs 6.5 ( I would think maybe the turbo cam has less overlap?)
can the heads be interchanged?
is there a HP rocker arm set up for these?
any advice would be appreciated !!

also while I'm asking doing it - I found a 4L80 Trans - ( I will do this for sure) will the front and read drive shafts need re-worked?
If your going to the trouble off polishing the rods, balancing and studding the block, why not add a turbo? Sounds like you're willing to put some money into this project?

I'm pretty sure I've read a thread a little while back on The Truck Stop where someone measured flow on a ported head. It did improve flow. Here's some roller rockers for ya. Expensive and I've read it doesn't help on performance. Make the stock ones more reliably by replacing the stock nylon retainers with stainless rivets or grade 8 bolts.
 

LT67

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On a n/a 6.2 or 6.5 you can play around with the fuel delivery and timing on the injection pump, but that's about it. And the power gains will be minimal.

**if you use the turbo set up, be sure to use the dual inlet water pump. It balances out the cooling in the #7 & #8 cylinders. The 6.5 turbo engines were infamous for holes in the #7 & #8 pistons because of the lack of coolant flow. The upgraded water pump fixed that along with 180 thermostats instead of the factory 195 thermostat.
 

Barrman

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Do a deep dive into the relationship between the compression ratio and boost for the 6.5. Lowering compression makes the engine live on constant boost compared to a stock engine that lives on 0 boost except when needed. Huge difference.
 

Rutjes

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I agree with @Ilikemtb999. Those are all good turbo choices. I went with the HX35 myself. Closed to GM8 specs from what I could tell, but a lot more efficient. Another option is a HX40II. A lot of people run those. It's a HX35 and HX40 hybrid. Definitely get a high flow intake plenum or make one.Stock turbo intake plenum is very restrictive.

IMG_20210617_160940.jpg IMG_20210617_160935.jpg 39d61c3c-7563-4376-bbf9-dbe70784aba8.jpg

You will need to fabricate your own exhaust or have one made. Stock 6.5T crossover is said to fit if you have a 4" or higher lift. If not it needs to be routed around the front driveshaft.

IMG_20211012_155801.jpg
 

Ilikemtb999

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I agree with @Ilikemtb999. Those are all good turbo choices. I went with the HX35 myself. Closed to GM8 specs from what I could tell, but a lot more efficient. Another option is a HX40II. A lot of people run those. It's a HX35 and HX40 hybrid. Definitely get a high flow intake plenum or make one.Stock turbo intake plenum is very restrictive.

View attachment 848220 View attachment 848221 View attachment 848219

You will need to fabricate your own exhaust or have one made. Stock 6.5T crossover is said to fit if you have a 4" or higher lift. If not it needs to be routed around the front driveshaft.

View attachment 848222
The drivers manifold hits the frame, this is why I just used the flange and modded a 6.5 crossover. It was pretty easy all things considered.
 

SteelNinja

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would it help to build a motor plate and raise the engine up 1/4 inch or so ?( a spacer plate b/t the engine mount and frame?
 

Rutjes

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The drivers manifold hits the frame, this is why I just used the flange and modded a 6.5 crossover. It was pretty easy all things considered.
I think you must have sagging engine mounts? On my friend's 6.2 with turbo with GM manifolds nothing was hitting the frame. We even added a 4mm spacer (6 with gaskets) to the passenger side manifold so it would clear the injectors.

would it help to build a motor plate and raise the engine up 1/4 inch or so ?( a spacer plate b/t the engine mount and frame?
Wouldn't that just put the holes further apart, making it impossible to align them with the mounts?
 

SteelNinja

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No Not at all , Ive done it plenty of times - like when installing a big block 454 in a square body and running large tube headers . I just have my buddy at the machine shop punch holes in a 1/4 inch steel plate and put it between the frame and engine mount 1/4 inch has always given me all the room needed but I guess you could always add more if needed( thinker.
 

Ilikemtb999

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I think you must have sagging engine mounts? On my friend's 6.2 with turbo with GM manifolds nothing was hitting the frame. We even added a 4mm spacer (6 with gaskets) to the passenger side manifold so it would clear the injectors.



Wouldn't that just put the holes further apart, making it impossible to align them with the mounts?
I haven’t actually tried myself on the drivers side but I swear I saw pictures of a 6.5 drivers manifold basically pointing right at the frame rail on a square body. Guess I’m wrong then if you’ve actually done it.
 
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There is a huge thread on putting a 6.5 turbo setup onto these trucks. Lots of photos, tips and tricks. I did it 7 years ago with a stock 6.5 set up onto my 6.2. agree with everyone else, if you are confident in building it in the first place you should be more than confident putting the turbo in it. Mine's all stock but works beautifully with plenty of power at 10 psi. Only drawback is replacing glow plugs on the passenger side which is what I just came inside from doing. The third one back is more than a bit tricky as it's behind the down pipe and the narrow square body frame. Driver side is a piece of cake.
 

2INSANE

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So both the 6.2 and 6.5 is “Knocking”, I would try and figure out what the knocking noise is before you go crazy on spending huge amounts of money. Could be something simple, like a bad injector, lifter or ip timing could be off.

Steel crank is not needed. Waste of money. Crank failure is cause by failed harmonic balancer and or in the case of a 6.5 failed crank pulley as it is dampened as well.

HP rocker arms are a waste of money.IMO

6.2 and 6.5 heads are interchangeable. Many people make hybrid 6.2/6.5 motors that work well.

Porting does help as already mentioned. But if you are going to do that, why not put in some 18:1 pistons?

Also porting helps non turbo motors much more then motors that are turboed.

Studding the heads is not needed unless you plan on boosting 15+ psi. Anything more then 15psi then I recommend 18:1 pistons.

1. What really helps the most for durability is tapering every bolt hole to prevent cracks and grind or file all sharp edges. This is preferred for the older model 6.5 and 6.2 blocks.

2. IMO I believe all older 6.5 and 6.2 diesels should get the lock n stitch inserts installed in the heads between the valves. For only $20, one could save or restore a pair of heads that are cracked by simply buying some brass tubing instead of buying the Lock n stitch kit

Doing 1 and 2 on an older block will make it as strong if not stronger then an optimizer or P400.

The HX35w is a great cheap turbo upgrade.

The HX40 is an even better turbo upgrade that will help a 6.2 or 6.5 reach its full potential.

Whatever turbo you choose, it is highly highly recommended to have an inner cooler when going above 7psi.

My personal temperature testing shows that with a opened 180 degree thermostat, the rear of the heads usually show about 15-20 degrees hotter. So at 180 you are really at 200 in the rear. The sweet spot is 180 in the rear, so I recommend a high flow 6.5 or 6.2 water pump with a high flow 160 degree thermostat to hit that 180 rear degree temp. A lot of guys that do a lot of towing, don’t even have a thermostat.

Between the 6.2 and 6.5 motors, I would have preferred to have build a turbo charged 6.2. However… there are much more options for the 6.5 as far as upgrades goes and I am seeing them more in the junk yards now that they are rolling over 230k, (I work in a recycling yard and average the life expectancy of 6.5 diesels to 220k-250k) so basically parts availability and cost is why I dropped a 6.5 in my ride.

I could talk all day about this stuff in person. But right now, I think you should start slow and figure out the current problems with whatever knocking motor you choose to build.

After it is all said and done, you will take a step back and realize all the time and money you just blew on an old block… You could have bought a P400 or Optimizer block and transferred your existing accessories over, saving you thousands and even thousands more in the future from potential maintenance.

Hope this helps! Cheers!
 
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Sharecropper

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Doing 1 and 2 on an older block will make it as strong if not stronger then an optimizer or P400.
Hold on there Mr. 2insane. Doing 1 and 2 will indeed strengthen an older block, but not to the strength of a P400. The P400 6.5 diesel was designed and built by GEP for the up-armored HMMWV which weighed over 12,000 pounds and would be operating in desert conditions. Unlike regular engine production protocol where blocks move down an automated assembly line, each P400 was hand-built to exacting tolerances as if a soldier's life depended on it because, well, it did. The alloy for the P400's castings were specially formulated of proprietary metallurgy blends for strength and longevity. Instead of casting, the crankshafts are forged steel, as are the connecting rods and pistons. The rods are produced via a fracture-split process Fracture-split Connecting Rods – No, That’s Not a Broken Part - Mitchell 1 ShopConnection which is a superior method of rod production. The bottom-end is completely redesigned and features a 3-inch cast iron girdle around the entire circumference of the block. The main bearings are 4-bolt and are integral to the girdle. The girdle cannot be retro-fitted to other 6.5 blocks. The top of the P400's pistons are ceramic coated for better heat resistance, and the bottom of each piston is spray-oiled & cooled on every stroke. The P400's cooling passages are improved to provide superior heat transfer. All valve guides feature hardened inserts and the valves themselves are produced from a proprietary metallurgy blend. In summary, there is no way anything can be done to an older 6.2 engine to make it approach the technology, strength, and power of a P400. I purchased my P400 long block brand new in 2018 and it was among the last ones available. I feel very fortunate to have acquired the powerplant, which is still on my engine stand. I have since mounted a Bowtie Overdrive Level II 700R4 behind the P400, plus a NP241 transfer case built by Mark Bendler at Kodiak Truck. Ceramic headers from Stan's and a FlowKooler water pump. Next to go on is a Supercharger from Bullet in Australia. As soon as this is mounted, I plan to pull off the front clip of my M1028 and swap out the drivetrains. I am attaching a few photos which show the P400's cast iron girdle and piston sprayers.

DSC_0271.JPG DSC_0237 - uploaded 180812.JPG IMG_3519.jpg IMG_4142.jpg 6.5 Chev 3V kit parts.jpg 2-supercharger-6.5-chev-lr.jpg
 

2INSANE

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Hold on there Mr. 2insane. Doing 1 and 2 will indeed strengthen an older block, but not to the strength of a P400. The P400 6.5 diesel was designed and built by GEP for the up-armored HMMWV which weighed over 12,000 pounds and would be operating in desert conditions. Unlike regular engine production protocol where blocks move down an automated assembly line, each P400 was hand-built to exacting tolerances as if a soldier's life depended on it because, well, it did. The alloy for the P400's castings were specially formulated of proprietary metallurgy blends for strength and longevity. Instead of casting, the crankshafts are forged steel, as are the connecting rods and pistons. The rods are produced via a fracture-split process Fracture-split Connecting Rods – No, That’s Not a Broken Part - Mitchell 1 ShopConnection which is a superior method of rod production. The bottom-end is completely redesigned and features a 3-inch cast iron girdle around the entire circumference of the block. The main bearings are 4-bolt and are integral to the girdle. The girdle cannot be retro-fitted to other 6.5 blocks. The top of the P400's pistons are ceramic coated for better heat resistance, and the bottom of each piston is spray-oiled & cooled on every stroke. The P400's cooling passages are improved to provide superior heat transfer. All valve guides feature hardened inserts and the valves themselves are produced from a proprietary metallurgy blend. In summary, there is no way anything can be done to an older 6.2 engine to make it approach the technology, strength, and power of a P400. I purchased my P400 long block brand new in 2018 and it was among the last ones available. I feel very fortunate to have acquired the powerplant, which is still on my engine stand. I have since mounted a Bowtie Overdrive Level II 700R4 behind the P400, plus a NP241 transfer case built by Mark Bendler at Kodiak Truck. Ceramic headers from Stan's and a FlowKooler water pump. Next to go on is a Supercharger from Bullet in Australia. As soon as this is mounted, I plan to pull off the front clip of my M1028 and swap out the drivetrains. I am attaching a few photos which show the P400's cast iron girdle and piston sprayers.

View attachment 853561 View attachment 853562 View attachment 853563 View attachment 853565 View attachment 853566 View attachment 853567
Agreed! The p400 components are indeed better! So far, I have not seen any documentation on any P400 blocks cracking or heads cracking. I also have not seen any documation of an older block, that has been crack proofed to have actually cracked. That is why I made the comparison.

Love the motor pics. Every time you post your Uber clean pics I drool.
 

frank8003

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SteelNinja

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Thanks Guys Great info .. I'll post more questions as I start rebuilding or tearing stuff down..
I did find and get a 4L80 transmission with 36K miles on it It came from an rv/ camper.. Funds are limited so it will be a slow process I'll just keep gathering parts little by little..
Things got a little slower over the past few weeks ( bad luck streak )
Our daily driver transmission went out- so we drove our Tahoe back up vehicle - we were driving in fog and rain on a back country road - came around a turn and there was a 3 way intersection - The wife was driving -( she did good) she hit the brakes and they just growled and chattered while sliding . I was in the passenger seat looking at my phone - when I looked up OH Crap TREES and ditch - I didn't have on a belt and wasn't sure if she did .. I just put my arm up on her chest and got between her and the dash ( a split second reaction but seemed like it was slow motion ) and bammm . the front end got a good smashing and needed to cut some trees to get us out - I think I tore something in my shoulder and arm It turned black and has a knot in my arm.. But Thank God we didn't die or end up in the ER.. So it has slowed projects down a bit . Im watching youtube and trying to home rehab... LIFE IS GOOD BOYEEEE
 

2INSANE

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Thanks Guys Great info .. I'll post more questions as I start rebuilding or tearing stuff down..
I did find and get a 4L80 transmission with 36K miles on it It came from an rv/ camper.. Funds are limited so it will be a slow process I'll just keep gathering parts little by little..
Things got a little slower over the past few weeks ( bad luck streak )
Our daily driver transmission went out- so we drove our Tahoe back up vehicle - we were driving in fog and rain on a back country road - came around a turn and there was a 3 way intersection - The wife was driving -( she did good) she hit the brakes and they just growled and chattered while sliding . I was in the passenger seat looking at my phone - when I looked up OH Crap TREES and ditch - I didn't have on a belt and wasn't sure if she did .. I just put my arm up on her chest and got between her and the dash ( a split second reaction but seemed like it was slow motion ) and bammm . the front end got a good smashing and needed to cut some trees to get us out - I think I tore something in my shoulder and arm It turned black and has a knot in my arm.. But Thank God we didn't die or end up in the ER.. So it has slowed projects down a bit . Im watching youtube and trying to home rehab... LIFE IS GOOD BOYEEEE
Damn man! Yal are lucky! Glad u are still alive!
 
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