6.2 timing issue

[squarebodybo]

Looking for some help. I have an m1009 i purchased and i am having trouble timing it. I put on new injectors, timing chain, electric fuel pump, and have two IP I've both tried with same result. IP alignment pin is in correct oval hole on gear.

My issue is my load advance lever does very little if anything and I get black smoke if I press the pedal down. If i adjust full retarded or full advance my lever does nothing.
With both pumps. It idles great with no smoke at whatvi feel is best timing location. 1/16 retarded from line. If I fully retard or advance I do get excessive white smoke from crank. To add, my electric pump is showing 3.5-4 psi. The 6.2 should have around 5.5 to 8.

Any ideas on how to fix this? Is it bc my new TC and gear seat is tight and new? Would it be my low psi from pump? Should I screw in the adjustment screw on advance lever? I just don't know why my advance lever doesn't work on both of my pumps at any location I place IP. Advance lever worked before all of the work i did. My injectors were in bad shape and my original timing chain was way out of spec.

 

[squarebodybo]

Thanks for any help provided. I have looked over all of the tech manuals and stenadyne books.

 

[Barrman]

It reads as if you have tried two different used Injection pumps. Is that correct?

It also reads as if the fuel rate has been turned up on at least one of the IP units. Black smoke is too much fuel for the air inside the cylinders. Without a turbo the only ways to get black smoke is with a blocked fresh air supply and or a turned up fuel rate. Even with a turned up fuel rate the black smoke should only be at very high throttle settings and load. But that will be very light black smoke that is hard to spot with a healthy engine.

I need to mention that looking in the mirror at night with headlights behind you. You will think you see smoke no matter the tune or throttle settings. Even though there is no visible to the eye smoke coming out. This visual phenomenon is related to the properties of the headlights. Or at least that has been the conclusion of past threads here about the issue.

I have a fuel pressure gauge on one of my 6.2 trucks. It addles around 8 psi from the mechanical pump but settles down to 5-6 psi when cruising down the road. You should not be getting black smoke at the same time you have fuel starvation issues. You can have one condition, but not both at the same time.

Just out of curiosity what are the numbers on the IP data plate? It should be DB2829 ???? If yours is DB2831 ???? That is a 6.5 IP.

Here is a video about IP indentification:

Then we get to timing. Which reading your original thread looks like you have been to both ends of the timing spectrum and everywhere in between. Without some kind of timing device it is really difficult to comment on if you have it correct or not. The fall back method is to use the advance lever to test timing. Yet, yours doesn’t do anything. Which gets me back to used injection pumps of questionable quality. I have had pumps with non functioning advance levers. So, that is possible. Here is a video about the different methods of checking the timing:

 

[squarebodybo]

That is correct on the two pumps. I have the original 2829 J code pump. I bought a NOS pump as well. Still in wrapper.it was I believe for an 1989 HD van. I'll look up pump number when I get home. I know the plunger is larger on that one. I have opened the nut on the advance plunger and on both IPs they seem to have unrestricted movement and spring. Also,Both fuel bowls do not have any crud or buildup inside but I know that doesn't mean they are good IP.
Black smoke comes while in park and pushing accelerator as if your revving the engine. At idle there is nothing or if you accelerate slowly only a faint black smoke. Just strange. I think I may turn the trimmer screw on LA arm two turns and see what's happens tonight and put the NOS IP back on.
I have watched those videos. With timing by ear. 1/16 retard sounds best at the moment on the newer pump. I appreciate your time in attempting to help sir.

 

[Barrman]

How many hours do you figure the truck has idled and just moved slowly since the last time it went down the highway at speed for at least 20 minutes?

The generic term is wet stacking. Basically a diesel that isn’t being worked will start to smoke. Black, blue and white. It will also just not run right. I have a 6.2 in my M715. I didn’t start it that often and when I did I just idled around my place. Then I noticed a puff of blue smoke out the pipe. The next time I started it more smoke for a longer time. I took it for a drive and it smoked more than a mosquito fogger truck the first 3 miles. I did 12 miles at a pretty fast pace for that truck. This happened over a year ago and it hasn’t happened since, I drive at least a few miles every time I start it and have never had any oil or coolant usage.

 

[squarebodybo]

I honestly couldn't tell you. I bought this off of an older gentleman in April and it sat for over a year . Since I've owned it I put a fluiddampner, 60G plugs, cdr, Bosch injectors, NOS 2829-4723 IP, new fluids, electric fuel pump with relay and fuel gauge. I haven't drove it much besides around my yard trying to get it running good. I would say I've put less than a mile and it's idled less than 3 hours since I've done any work.

 

[Barrman]

Take it for a drive. 40-45 mph is the speed where the squarebody becomes a barn door in the wind. Try to get at least that fast and just drive.

 

[squarebodybo]

Ok. I will. I just got the other pump in and drove it around the yard. It spits black smoke still when you hammer down with a matchstick width retarded. I haven't messed with trimmer screw on advance arm but i bet the arm still does nothing once i adjust. If I'm correct the advance arm is actually suppose to retard timing when it's pushed in right? I may mess with turning that trimscrew in another turn or so but I doubt it does anything. If that doesn't fix it. Im just going to drive it as it and maybe the timing chain will stretch some after a few thousand miles and naturally retard the timing. Heck, i don't know. Appreciate your help Sir!

 

[royalflush55]

What kind of diesel is in the tank? How long has it been since any fresh known good diesel has been added to tank?

 

[squarebodybo]

I put a new tank and pump on it. diesel and lubricant is 2monthes old. Fuel return line isn't plugged either.

 

[Sharecropper]

No disrespect meant to the OP, but there's no doubt in my mind the issue is caused by a defective pump. Your original 2829 pump is worn out and the seals in your 36-year-old "NOS" 1989 pump are dried-out and shot. Nobody wants to spend several hundred dollars for a pump rebuild, and will dance all around the issue, asking all the same questions and hoping beyond hope it's not the pump. It's the pump. Send your original pump to Huckstorf Diesel for a complete rebuild. Sell something to pay the bill. Install the rebuilt pump and be happy. Just my 2 cents. Again, no disrespect intended.

 

[squarebodybo]

No disrespect taken. That's honestly the only thing I can think of it being. I'm either going to send my original pump in for rebuild or pull the engine for a sb350. If I pull the 6.2. I'll have a lot of like new parts for sale. Thanks all for their input.

 

[squarebodybo]

As a last ditch effort before I pull it. I ordered a IP rebuild kit. I have the manuals so im going to do a rebuild on my original pump and see if that is indeed the culprit.

 

[Sharecropper]

As a last ditch effort before I pull it. I ordered a IP rebuild kit. I have the manuals so im going to do a rebuild on my original pump and see if that is indeed the culprit.

Most everyone here on SS freely shares information for the purpose of assisting other SS members, as evidenced by the five responses to your original question. Yeah, there are a few freeloaders, but it seems all forums have those folks lurking in the shadows. If you have the expertise to rebuild your own injection pump, then I cannot think of a better way for you to contribute to this forum than to photo-document the process in a new thread with step-by-step, copious and detailed accompanying text. I consider myself to be an accomplished technician and fabricator, however I will be the first to admit that I haven't yet found the courage to rebuild an injection pump, and then use that pump on my engine. It's always been easier for me to simply send my pumps to Huckstorf and pay the bill with plastic. So I will certainly appreciate your consideration for this suggestion and look forward to learning something new.