802a no power at lugs

[mgoben64]

Noob here. Just bought a 802a from a private seller. Got it home, started testing and found that it runs great, looks well cared for. Convenience outlets are pushing 118v but could not get power at terminal lugs. Close circuit light does not illuminate. Did look at several threads to see if I could find where to start troubleshooting. So far I'm seeing tangential issues to this for the 804a but not the no power at the terminal lugs but found nothing specific to 802a. Hate to ask but if anyone knows a great thread on this issue, please send me the link. Many thanks!

 

[DieselAddict]

Have you downloaded and reviewed the TMs? If not look at the top of the webpage. Click on TM and find the post for the 802. There are several technical manuals available. Lots of good troubleshooting in there.

Looking at the manuals will get you in the grove of what the parts are and will make it a lot easier for us to help you.

 

[jamawieb]

Noob here. Just bought a 802a from a private seller. Got it home, started testing and found that it runs great, looks well cared for. Convenience outlets are pushing 118v but could not get power at terminal lugs. Close circuit light does not illuminate. Did look at several threads to see if I could find where to start troubleshooting. So far I'm seeing tangential issues to this for the 804a but not the no power at the terminal lugs but found nothing specific to 802a. Hate to ask but if anyone knows a great thread on this issue, please send me the link. Many thanks!

So you hit the AC interruptor switch to closed and no power to the lugs? Did you take voltage at the lugs or do you think no power because the AC interruptor light did not come on?

 

[Ray70]

Not sure if you tested the green AC circuit interruptor bulb, but assuming it's good and you don't have voltage at the lugs, the TM will tell you how to test both the interruptor as well as the power and ground wires that activate it.
If all the tests pass but the interruptor still won't close, give it a few good taps with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer.
A little searching around here will turn up dozens of similar problems.... most of which are overcome with the hammer technique!
If the hammer works, take the interruptor apart to see why it was hanging up.
If the hammer does not work, take the interruptor apart to see why the hammer didn't fix it!

 

[Guyfang]

You might open the top, and see if a nest of mice have a winter vacation spot on top of your K1 contactor.

 

[kloppk]

Here is the circuit from the -24 TM when you lift and HOLD the contactor switch UP.
The GREEN circuit path should have 0 volts on it and the Pink-ish should have 24 volts DC on it.
This applies 24 volts to the coil in K1. K1-X get 24 volts and 0 volts to K1-Y.
The causes the contactor K1 to pull closed. Assuming the contactor isn't stuck power should appear at the lugs.
Do a self-test on the contactor lamp. Does it light up during self-test?
When you lift and HOLD S5 up does the contactor lamp illuminate?

 

[mgoben64]

Have you downloaded and reviewed the TMs? If not look at the top of the webpage. Click on TM and find the post for the 802. There are several technical manuals available. Lots of good troubleshooting in there.

Looking at the manuals will get you in the grove of what the parts are and will make it a lot easier for us to help you.

Thanks! Will get this website figured out eventually.

 

[mgoben64]

Have you downloaded and reviewed the TMs? If not look at the top of the webpage. Click on TM and find the post for the 802. There are several technical manuals available. Lots of good troubleshooting in there.

Looking at the manuals will get you in the grove of what the parts are and will make it a lot easier for us to help you.

So you hit the AC interruptor switch to closed and no power to the lugs? Did you take voltage at the lugs or do you think no power because the AC interruptor light did not come on?

Hit the switch up, no light. Tested lugs with the Fluke probe and nada.

 

[mgoben64]

You might open the top, and see if a nest of mice have a winter vacation spot on top of your K1 contactor.

Will do. As soon as I get back up to the farm this weekend. Entirely possible. Thanks!

 

[mgoben64]

Here is the circuit from the -24 TM when you lift and HOLD the contactor switch UP.
The GREEN circuit path should have 0 volts on it and the Pink-ish should have 24 volts DC on it.
This applies 24 volts to the coil in K1. K1-X get 24 volts and 0 volts to K1-Y.
The causes the contactor K1 to pull closed. Assuming the contactor isn't stuck power should appear at the lugs.
Do a self-test on the contactor lamp. Does it light up during self-test?
When you lift and HOLD S5 up does the contactor lamp illuminate?

View attachment 888247

Ah, gotcha. Okay well unfortunately its up at the farm and I'm downstate for work this week. Could not get it to light by holding the switch up (or down for that matter). Initial thought was it may be the switch but sounds like more recon is forthcoming. Will test and report back.

 

[Guyfang]

If the S5 is bad, I will eat it.

Its important that the Light comes on, as the contacts for it are in the K1, so if the light press to test works, and everything else is in order, when the light comes on, the K1 has to have moved. Terminals 11 & 12 are for the light.

 

[mgoben64]

If the S5 is bad, I will eat it.

Its important that the Light comes on, as the contacts for it are in the K1, so if the light press to test works, and everything else is in order, when the light comes on, the K1 has to have moved. Terminals 11 & 12 are for the light.

Haha ok! I'll check it out this weekend and report back. Really appreciate everything!

 

[mgoben64]

It's a 2002 unit and if I'm reading this correctly it had a new motor put in it in 2007. Shows 300 hours on it, presume they put a new hour meter in it? BTW, love the tag line at the bottom!

 

[Guyfang]

For a while back in the day, LEAD had a real bad name. Over the years they have much improved.

 

[kloppk]

A bit of info what keeps K1 closed.
The CR3, S5-2, S5-3, K8-OL, K8-SC, K1-11, K1-12 path to ground is the latching path that keeps K1 closed when you release S5. When you put S5 in OPEN it breaks this path, K1 opens as well as the K1-11, K1-12 switch in K1.
The other side of the K1 coils gets 24 volts from K20 the Oil Pressure relay.

 

[mgoben64]

Haha ok! I'll check it out this weekend and report back. Really appreciate everything!

Follow up. Finally got up to the farm today and pulled the top off as instructed to get a look at K1 (and see if we had a mouse house lol). Luckily other than a couple spider webs, someone's clearly been in there, really hoping they put the wires back correctly. AC Circuit Interruptor Green Test light does work when depressed. I took K1 apart, inside was clean as seen. I cleaned the terminals and re-attached everything in same order. Still no Close Circuit operation and no power at lugs. The diag continues.

Did download all the manuals and am trying to learn how to navigate the military mindset in those PDFs. Not very intuitive yet. I'll continue to poke around.

Thanks for the assists thusfar. Much appreciated!

 

[Ray70]

If you haven't done so already you need to test the circuit to see where it's broken.
Start it up and first verify you have 24V on the X terminal of K1
If so, follow the instructions in the TM, it will tell you to manually connect the Y terminal to ground with a jumper. If K1 is good it should close when you ground the Y terminal. If not, the K1 contactor is either bad or stuck.

If it does close, that indicates a failure somewhere in the ground path between K1-Y terminal and the S5 switch.
You can then work backwards from K1-Y to S5 and figure out where the ground gets lost.

If you do not have 24V on K1-X, run a jumper to any +24 source, such as the battery etc.
Retest the contactor using the switch as normal. If it works now, you need to back track through the oil pressure switch to see where your +24V signal got lost.

If you have power and ground at X and Y , don't take the mallet suggestion as a joke. I'm dead serious, it works quite often.
Hold S5 up and whack the top of K1 If it works, then you just need to determine why the contactor is sticking.

Also, Have you checked S5 yet, to make sure it's wired correctly and it's working?
Did you put the markings on the connectors of K1 or has someone else been in there messing around before you ?

 

[mgoben64]

If you haven't done so already you need to test the circuit to see where it's broken.
Start it up and first verify you have 24V on the X terminal of K1
If so, follow the instructions in the TM, it will tell you to manually connect the Y terminal to ground with a jumper. If K1 is good it should close when you ground the Y terminal. If not, the K1 contactor is either bad or stuck.

If it does close, that indicates a failure somewhere in the ground path between K1-Y terminal and the S5 switch.
You can then work backwards from K1-Y to S5 and figure out where the ground gets lost.

If you do not have 24V on K1-X, run a jumper to any +24 source, such as the battery etc.
Retest the contactor using the switch as normal. If it works now, you need to back track through the oil pressure switch to see where your +24V signal got lost.

If you have power and ground at X and Y , don't take the mallet suggestion as a joke. I'm dead serious, it works quite often.
Hold S5 up and whack the top of K1 If it works, then you just need to determine why the contactor is sticking.

Also, Have you checked S5 yet, to make sure it's wired correctly and it's working?
Did you put the markings on the connectors of K1 or has someone else been in there messing around before you ?

Thanks, Ray. No all that K1 graffiti is from someone in this poor unit's past. Thus my concern. That and it appears this individual put new terminal connectors on the leads 11,12, X & Y. All were done poorly and one I thought for sure was the culprit. Tried to re-do it and man that milspec wire casing is a bugger. Had to bail on the project for family stuff but will endeavor to get back to it today. Game of inches! On the mallet thing, how hard of a hit we talkin?

Best,

Ben

 

[Guyfang]

A sharp tap. Not a man mountain dean whack. Insure that the wires are correctly hooked up. X&Y, and 11&12.

If you still have the K1 out, simply apply 24 VDC to pins X&Y. The relay should close, and you should have continuity on pins 11&12.

 

[mgoben64]

A sharp tap. Not a man mountain dean whack. Insure that the wires are correctly hooked up. X&Y, and 11&12.

If you still have the K1 out, simply apply 24 VDC to pins X&Y. The relay should close, and you should have continuity on pins 11&12.

Gotcha. Thanks a ton!