802a no start from switch and no power at lugs.

[aredman]

Hello
I’m another guy that can’t get it start from switch.

I have a 802a that bought that has never started from switch. Cranks fine from dead crank great.
I do get power from terminal 7 on my switch when I put in start.
No power to K2 though.
Did swap some relays around and no change.
Been looking at TMs and wondered if s14 could cause this, but don’t quite understand how to test. I also do not have power at lugs when I get it running. Runs fine when I start with dead crank and disconnect fuel shut off.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Ray70]

So all other 24V items on your control panel have power, correct?
And you get power out when you turn the switch to crank?
Do you hear the starter solenoid hidden behind the rear wall of the control panel click when you attempt to crank?
Do you see or hear the starter relay in the control panel click?

 

[kloppk]

Open the gauge panel and closely watch relay K16 and move S1 from OFF to PRIME/RUN and back to OFF. You should see the contacts inside K16 changing position.
K16 is the crank disconnect relay. If S14 is bad K16 may not move which would prevent the starter turning the engine over via S1.

 

[aredman]

It seems other 24volt items work. Also no power to K2 so I assume solenoid would not click?
K15 moves when I crank. I do see k16 move when switching back to off.

 

[Guyfang]

What do the idiot lights, Fault Indicator lights tell you, when the set is in the run position?

 

[aredman]

Only lights that come on are after I put switch in start position, then the low oil pressure light comes on.
But never cranks

 

[kloppk]

Here is a diagram that ought to speed finding out why K2 isn't operating from S1.
The blue box's indicate the base wire number for each wire.
The red numbers in the yellow box's indicate the terminal on each component that the wire is connected to.

Not shown is actual path from S7-2 to K2-X1.
Here is the actual path for that....
S7-2 ------------TB5-20 -------------------- J6-20 / P6-20 -------------- K2-X1


Simply probe along the path with S1 in START to determine where you losing the 24 volts to K2-X1

 

[kloppk]

Only lights that come on are after I put switch in start position, then the low oil pressure light comes on.
But never cranks

Low Oil Pressure light should NOT come on with S1 in PRIME/RUN before attempting to start it. With that light ON the set will not turn over from S1. Cranking is inhibited due to the Fault Monitor closing relay K12 which open the K12 contacts in the diagram above.

Here is the path for 24 volts to get to the Fault Monitor Pin 1 to trigger a LOP fault.


LOP coming on might indicate a few problems.
- Defective Fault Monitor assembly. They do occasionally go bad. It's usually one of the numerous SCR's in them that's shorted out.
- Wiring issues
- Relay issues

You can unplug the connector from the Fault Monitor and attempt to crank the set using S1.
Unplugging it will prevent the LOP fault.
**** WARNING, unplugging it will prevent ALL faults from shutting down the set.

 

[Guyfang]

Unplug the Fault indicator and then see if it will start. Or, push the fault indicator reset switch up, hold it up, and then try to start the gen set with the S1.

 

[aredman]

Light comes only after I try to crank. Not before. Diagram helps. I’ll be home later today. Thanks

 

[Light in the Dark]

Care to share a photo of your oil pressure switch? It has both NO and NC functionality, have you confirmed the right leads are hooked up?

 

[Guyfang]

Have you ever seen it run right?

 

[Jeepadict]

@kloppk I dig the upgraded diagram. Where did these come from? Are there more for the rest of the set?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[kloppk]

The base schematic is DieselAddicts creation. I marked up a copy of that with the wire numbers and terminals of the individual components.
I'll try and remember to post the whole sheet tomorrow as well as copies of the individual components with helpfull info tomorrow.

 

[aredman]

Guy, I have never had start right since I bought it.
I unplugged fault indicator with no change.
Should say when I got it, was missing alternator and sensor that picks up flywheel speed. Forget the name. But all have been replaced. If makes any difference.
Thanks for feedback.

 

[kloppk]

The pages I mentioned yesterday...

If anyone wants the two PDF files with the info below feel free to shoot me a PM with your email address. - Kurt

I can also send a Excel spreadsheet of the wiring for the 802A/803A. It lists component to component wiring and wire number to component. It has two tabs.
It's something that @Guyfang and I worked on a few years ago to come up with a hopefully accurate Excel file depicting the wiring. Useful for troubleshooting!

 

[Guyfang]

You know I want it.

Break, different topic. Do you do drop box?

 

[kloppk]

You know I want it.

Break, different topic. Do you do drop box?

No Dropbox. I do use Google drive. The files aren't that large.
125 KB
386 KB
2.9 MB
I just emailed them to you.

 

[Guyfang]

I was wanting to send you something else.

 

[cbisson]

The pages I mentioned yesterday...

If anyone wants the two PDF files with the info below feel free to shoot me a PM with your email address. - Kurt

I can also send a Excel spreadsheet of the wiring for the 802A/803A. It lists component to component wiring and wire number to component. It has two tabs.
It's something that @Guyfang and I worked on a few years ago to come up with a hopefully accurate Excel file depicting the wiring. Useful for troubleshooting!

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PM sent. Thank you!