86' M1008 - Contemplating Chevy 350 engine swap

[Commander5993]

Have you considered buying a donor car? It's often less costly and definitely more convenient than chasing down all the individual parts.
Then you can sell the leftovers, sometimes even making a profit.

Yeah, thought about it. Fact is I can't do anything until I get a trailer sold.
Until then, I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take, and what its going to take to get the job done.

 

[Commander5993]

Basically, I'm trying to figure out what would be the best route I can take, in order to avoid this same situation again. If I can get away from the 6.2/6.5, and move to a different engine that is not prone to cracked heads/block, then that is what I would like to do. However, if in the end I just can't get the cash in order to do that, then I may just have to get a 6.2/6.5 and hope it lasts for as long as I need it.

 

[ken]

It sounds like you cheapest route would be to get a surplus 6.2. Or replace the heads. Some place like Rock Auto can ship you rebuilt heads for a few hundred bucks.. Then use a 180 deg thermostat to keep the engine cool enough to keep the crack worries away. I've had 6.2's for over 20 years. If you keep them cool, they don't crack. I'm not knocking your 350 idea. It just does not seem to be the quickest and cheapest route.

 

[HelluvaEngineer]

LoL

I hadn't never heard of a 383 Hi-Torque until you mentioned it. Sounds like the perfect engine for a CUCV.
Where did you get it? Used? New? What did it cost you?

It's a 350 with a 400 crank. Popular swap. I have one in my Z28. They are torque monsters. That said, I would stick with something with a GM warranty. I think they might have a 383 in their catalog now. If they don't I imagine they would have a 400. It's pretty easy to screw something up on a rebuild and it might not even be your fault. I have a spare 350 sitting on my garage floor that someone traded me. Ran a couple of minutes after a rebuild before it spun a bearing. It's not hard to do right but it takes a lot of patience and checking, and you can easily spend $1000 on measuring tools. A bore gage alone will be $250+.

That first engine you linked to seems like a good choice. Keep in mind it probably has a mild cam, which is what you want in a truck. With headers you will likely beat their HP spec anyway.

This is what you would want IMO. Google this. Note the big spread in HP vs torque. Definitely what you want in a truck. Also the GM ratings are usually conservative.
[h=3]HT383 E Chevrolet Performance Crate Engine[/h]

 

[rustystud]

It's a 350 with a 400 crank. Popular swap. I have one in my Z28. They are torque monsters. That said, I would stick with something with a GM warranty. I think they might have a 383 in their catalog now. If they don't I imagine they would have a 400. It's pretty easy to screw something up on a rebuild and it might not even be your fault. I have a spare 350 sitting on my garage floor that someone traded me. Ran a couple of minutes after a rebuild before it spun a bearing. It's not hard to do right but it takes a lot of patience and checking, and you can easily spend $1000 on measuring tools. A bore gage alone will be $250+.

That first engine you linked to seems like a good choice. Keep in mind it probably has a mild cam, which is what you want in a truck. With headers you will likely beat their HP spec anyway.

This is what you would want IMO. Google this. Note the big spread in HP vs torque. Definitely what you want in a truck. Also the GM ratings are usually conservative.
HT383 E Chevrolet Performance Crate Engine

The "383 Hi-Torque" is a factory crate engine. The "HT" 383 stands for Hi-Torque . I bought it from the Chevy dealership. It has a roller cam, forged crankshaft and came complete minus the exhaust manifolds and distributor. It is a "truck" engine according to the Chevy brochure. It cost me around $3000.00 at the time. That was about 10 years ago now. I installed cast-iron headers from Summit Racing. Cannot remember the brand name right now. Just last summer I went over "Steven's Pass" maintaining 60mph towing my travel trailer !

 

[98G]

How about a nice 5.9 Cummins out of a school bus? And maybe a G56 or NV4500?

 

[rustystud]

How about a nice 5.9 Cummins out of a school bus? And maybe a G56 or NV4500?

If I could afford one that would be a great combination ! Actually the 5.9 Cummins with an 1000/2000 series "Allison" !!!

 

[Commander5993]

If I could afford one that would be a great combination ! Actually the 5.9 Cummins with an 1000/2000 series "Allison" !!!

We can all dream...
If only our wallets had the same vision

 

[rustystud]

We can all dream...
If only our wallets had the same vision

Truer words have never been spoken !

 

[Commander5993]

Decision Made:
Just wanted to post an update with the decision that I made on what route to take on getting our "daily driver" M1008 back up and running.

We first looked at getting one of the new updated AMG Optimizer or the AMG P400 blocks.... those engines sound like real quality motors... but $7-$8k is a lot of money to put into an engine for a truck that we only have about $9-$10k in total.

So next, as I posted in the opening of this thread, I thought about changing to a different "stock" engine, like a chevy 350 or 383. It would have been nice to have the newer upgraded block and heads, let alone the extra power that would have came with an engine upgrade. But in the end after looking at many different engine and parts options, with all the needed parts and by the time everything was said and done it was still going to be $4-$5k. (Yes, I could have shaved off some of this by finding a "donor" engine etc)

So... this brings me to my decision: I ended up buying a pair of 6.5L heads from a company called Odessa Cylinderhead out of Florida. These heads are all new castings but with rebuilt parts (valves, springs etc). TBH the main reason we ended up taking this route... well #1 we need to get our truck back up to driving condition as we need it... but #2 I purchased this Pair of Heads for $500 for Both Heads including shipping. Plus they send a prepaid shipping label to return the cores, and yes they will accept all cores even if they are cracked etc, so long as they have all the parts there, and they don't charge an upfront core charge. This has been by far the best price I've been able to find anywhere, even for just regular rebuilt heads.
(Link to that ebay ad: https://goo.gl/Px6gbQ )

(Looking at their ads again.... they do have brand new heads with all brand new parts (valves, springs etc) for $100 more... https://goo.gl/hpkJs8 - I have contacted them to see if I can switch to those since the others apparently haven't shipped yet...)


Also I contacted Odessa with a few questions to make sure these were the correct heads for this engine and a few other things, and always got a reply back in less than a day, usually in just a few hours.

I hope that these heads work out great and I don't have any issues down the road. But if I ever do I will update my original SS thread I titled "CUCV 1986 M1008 - In a Real Pickle - Bad Heads - Need Advice" : https://goo.gl/Yh5Jmu

Thanks Everyone for All the Help, Information, and Advice

 

[rustystud]

That does sound like a deal to me. Good luck with the new heads !

 

[Commander5993]

That does sound like a deal to me. Good luck with the new heads !

Thanks, yeah its the best deal I've been able to find. Just hope everything works out good.

 

[ken]

Do your self a favor and replace the head bolts. They do stretch when tourqued. They are pretty cheep. Less than $20 a side on rock auto. Id hate to see you do all that work and end up with a leak.

 

[rustystud]

Do your self a favor and replace the head bolts. They do stretch when tourqued. They are pretty cheep. Less than $20 a side on rock auto. Id hate to see you do all that work and end up with a leak.

Totally agree !!!

 

[HelluvaEngineer]

Do your self a favor and replace the head bolts. They do stretch when tourqued. They are pretty cheep. Less than $20 a side on rock auto. Id hate to see you do all that work and end up with a leak.

Are there affordable head studs for that motor? They make a huge difference in equalizing torque and pressure on the heads. Although not sure how common blown head gaskets etc are.

 

[ken]

Yes there are studs for it. Affordable is questionable though. I little over $200. Not sure they would be worth it for a stock NA 6.2. If you don't over heat it, the gaskets/heads will last forever. Or they have for me at least. Keep it at 180 deg, change the oil often, don't over speed it and will give a long service life.

 

[Commander5993]

Do your self a favor and replace the head bolts. They do stretch when tourqued. They are pretty cheep. Less than $20 a side on rock auto. Id hate to see you do all that work and end up with a leak.

Yep Totally Agree Ken! I already ordered two sets of new Fel-pro head bolts when I ordered all the gaskets the other day. I don't want to take the chance.

And Yes, I also just ordered a AC-delco 180 degree thermostat to replace the original 195 too.

Wouldn't mind to have had the ARP studs, but $180 - $200 is just ridiculous for some bolts....


Speaking of head bolts, I thought that I read somewhere that you could take two of the old head bolts, cut the heads off them, then thread them in by hand a few turns, and use them as "guide pins" to lower the heads straight down onto the gaskets, then put in a couple new head bolts to hold the head and remove the two "guide pins". Anyone else heard this? Or used this method?
These heads have some good weight to them when trying to lower them "slowly", and there is no good hand holds on them really. I think some guide pins would be a great help in keeping everything properly aligned. And make it less tedious when lowering the heads down to the block.

 

[rustystud]

Yep Totally Agree Ken! I already ordered two sets of new Fel-pro head bolts when I ordered all the gaskets the other day. I don't want to take the chance.

And Yes, I also just ordered a AC-delco 180 degree thermostat to replace the original 195 too.

Wouldn't mind to have had the ARP studs, but $180 - $200 is just ridiculous for some bolts....


Speaking of head bolts, I thought that I read somewhere that you could take two of the old head bolts, cut the heads off them, then thread them in by hand a few turns, and use them as "guide pins" to lower the heads straight down onto the gaskets, then put in a couple new head bolts to hold the head and remove the two "guide pins". Anyone else heard this? Or used this method?
These heads have some good weight to them when trying to lower them "slowly", and there is no good hand holds on them really. I think some guide pins would be a great help in keeping everything properly aligned. And make it less tedious when lowering the heads down to the block.

That's an old time mechanics trick for all types of things like heads, water pumps, injection pumps etc...... I still have a complete set of bolts (from 1/4" to 3/4" fine and course thread) with the heads cut off and a slot cut in the end for a screw driver to remove it after "whatever" is installed.

 

[Commander5993]

That's an old time mechanics trick for all types of things like heads, water pumps, injection pumps etc...... I still have a complete set of bolts (from 1/4" to 3/4" fine and course thread) with the heads cut off and a slot cut in the end for a screw driver to remove it after "whatever" is installed.

Nice
Have to remember that

 

[ken]

If you have a oriely auto parts near by get you a MR Gasket #4367 thermostat. About $17. It's a high flow balanced sleeve type just like the stock one from the factory, but it's a 180deg. Or if you have a international harvester tractor dealer near by you can get the Robert Shaw 370-180 thermostat from them. The AC Delco thermostat has a much smaller hole, and flows a lot less. You might still overheat when working the engine under a load because you will be restricting the flow even when the thermostat is wide open.
Yes I have used the cut off bolt trick myself it works pretty well. Just like rusty said, cut a slot in the end with a hack saw, so you can remove them with a flat head screw driver. This also has worked well for me installing engines to transmissions.