86 M1009 water fording ideas

[jmartin1340]

Greetings fellow MV owners, I finally got my hands on a 1986 M1009 with 77k miles to use as camping/trail vehicle and daily driver. I have already bed-lined the outside dark olive as well as the bumpers/brush guard black bedliner. I am just looking for info to help protect it from water intrusion into critical components i.e. engine, axles, tranny, t-case. I plan on doing a 3in lift with 33" tires and doing a custom fiberglass snorkel at some point but any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Josh

 

[cucvrus]

Keep it out of deep water. Unless you want to take everything apart and service it every time. It is NOT designed to go thru deep water. I have one that is contaminated with water almost every time I off road it. Making a snorkel will just be the tip of the iceberg. Every joint cap dip stick and seal will need to be made water tight. Up to and including the exhaust. Don't get me wrong it will go thru the water and mud but it will also require a lot of maintenance afterwards and before. I have a vehicle I use primarily off road and I service it every time and have replaced many of the seals. Mine is dry and free of oil leaks for the main part. Water still gets in. I would NOT recommend doing it to a daily driver. I trailer mine to and from submarine / mud duty. Short trips I use the tow bar. Not advisable for your daily driver. Do as you wish. Have FUN and have a great day. 1 tablespoon of water will wipe the 6.2 out in a heart beat.

 

[jmartin1340]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. I wasn't really planning on deep water by any means, nothing over 2ft deep, but it's one of those "rather have and not need than need and not have" situations. Thank you for the info though!

 

[jmartin1340]

Also, do you happen to have any experience on the reliability of the 10bolt axles....would I be able to keep them while running 37in tires if I used better axle shafts or should I just look into doing the 1008 axle swap?

 

[corelokt]

37's on 10 bolts?, Not so much. You might on the road, not in the rough where they may stick and snap the axles. 33 inch is the upper limit.

 

[cucvrus]

I agree. I wheel an M1009 very hard. I am always aware and thinking about the limitations of the stock axles. I do NOT spin crazy and wildly. I am running LT23575R15 tires at the current time. Great traction and no problems. I ran stock 31 10.5 X 15 tires and still no trouble. Even in deep mud and snow. I respect the 10 bolt rears and they respect me. If I wanted to I could break them. I am sure of that. No point. They lasted this long so I will respect and maintain them as long as I can. not looking for any extra work.

 

[blueblaze]

easy things to do for water are to relocate the breathers, these are pretty major as the trans and transfer case breathers aren't really located in ideal positions and provide way too easy entry for water. The front axle breather is really the only well placed breather. I have my trans and transfer case breathers up to the firewall now and I know it's saved me from water contamination especially when we spent a month up at the arctic circle with the truck. Its easy and cheap to do. just extend the breathers with rubber hose to a higher location. As for 10 bolt survival, With a 6.2 and 35's I've broke 3 shafts. Heck after the 6.2 blew up we installed a 454 bored .30 over. After we got it installed we put it on a timer out in the field. We broke both rear shafts in 15 seconds. So I'd probably stay at 33's for all over reliability but 35's will survive just fine as long as your not driving it like a race car.

 

[ken]

You will need a dipstick for the engine and tranny from a Humvee with the deep water fording kit. You twist the handle to seal them so water does not go down the tube. Your engine may have a vented oil fill cap. You will need the flat style that is non vented. On the tranny you can use a brass 1/4 furrle to 1/4 NPT filling on the plastic vent tube. Then a hose barb to rubber hose to run it up as far as you plan going. The axles and T-case vent hoses can also be ran up also. If you are planning on going deep enough to need a snorkel then you will need to put ball valves on each vent hose to stop water from going into them. If you try to run the vents up to the snorkel, the engine will pull a vacuum on them and draw water through any loose seals. You will need to inspect EACH seal and seal surface, IE driveshaft yokes and spindles for grooves. If the surface where the seal rides has a groove then water WILL leak past it and enter the bearing area. Water is thinner than oil! The NP208 tailshaft seal is a joke and leaks often. You will also need to make sure the snap ring IS IN place on the front axle shaft behind the lock out hubs. This keeps the axle shaft pulled tight into the spindle seal on the back side. If not water WILL enter the back side of the spindle and into the wheel bearings. Last but not least. USE BOAT TRAILER WHEEL BEARING GREASE for everything!!!!. You will still need to service anything that leaks but it will not wash out. Also USE this grease on each seal for lube. Hope this helps

 

[rustystud]

The seals on the Chevy truck are not meant to keep "out" anything. They are made to keep fluids in. The military seals for the M38 and other military vehicles had two lip seals on them. They where a true double seal. You can try and install two seals on the transfer-case (one facing "in" the other facing "out" ) but I don't believe there is enough room for two seals. There is also the crankshaft and transmission seals to consider too. Then there is the differential seals. I rebuilt some early transmissions and differentials (WWII and Korean war) on military vehicles that had the extra wide double seals. That was in the 1980's and the seals where extremely hard to find then. I don't believe you can even find them now. Of course they would be almost 80 years old now and the rubber would be shot even if you did find some.
All this to say don't deep water ford this truck. It's not worth the few minutes of fun.

 

[jmartin1340]

Thanks for all the advice, I plan on sticking with 33's for the time being and sometime way in the future I will get around to swapping for 1-ton axles and a turbo. As far as the water fording I will just stick with extending the breather tubes and maybe doing some kind of splash guard in the engine compartment just in case I come across flooding on the roads or muddy trails, I'll just stay out of crazy deep stuff or anything higher than the floor boards. Again thank you for the advice and experience!

 

[richingalveston]

just curious if anyone has heard of putting air pressure on the differentials to keep water out.
I have never looked into it but I was told by a guy who ran the mud buggies The racing ones with the tractor tires on back an ski's on the front tires.

The guy said they had onboard air with a regulator which would put 1 to 2 psi into the differentials through the breathers. Supposedly this kept the majority of the water out of the axles.

I have only heard this from one person and have my doubts.

supposedly it counteracts the water pressure.

I have not tried it and i am not sure if it actually is being done and works. just thought I would throw it out there to see if anyone else has heard of it.

rich

 

[ken]

Rich, Yea I tried it about 20 years ago when I was really into offroading with a Civi blazer I had. I got the idea from my M35. It has the deep water fording kit. It only puts air pressure to the bell housing. But I noticed the tranny never got water in it. I used a 1 to 4 air manifold for a air compressor. Using a ARB air locker compressor and a adjustable regulator I got from Graniger I drilled and tapped the T-case, Tranny, and both Axles. Then used 1/4 fuel line to pumb them up. That truck had a SM465 and a NP205. It wasn't perfect but It did work. The biggest problem was with the front axle. The inner seals by the carrier bearings let water in no matter what. Although it is possible they were bad to begin with.

 

[rustystud]

just curious if anyone has heard of putting air pressure on the differentials to keep water out.
I have never looked into it but I was told by a guy who ran the mud buggies The racing ones with the tractor tires on back an ski's on the front tires.

The guy said they had onboard air with a regulator which would put 1 to 2 psi into the differentials through the breathers. Supposedly this kept the majority of the water out of the axles.

I have only heard this from one person and have my doubts.

supposedly it counteracts the water pressure.

I have not tried it and i am not sure if it actually is being done and works. just thought I would throw it out there to see if anyone else has heard of it.

rich

Look at my thread on fording kit for the deuce. I did this on mine and it works. You only need about 3PSI of pressure for 6 ft of water pressure. The problem is finding a regulator and pressure gauge that goes that low.

 

[cucvrus]

Honda 4 wheeler has a tire pressure gauge that goes that low.

 

[rustystud]

Honda 4 wheeler has a tire pressure gauge that goes that low.

I have one for my 2004 "350 Rancher" . Still doesn't help with setting the pressure though .

 

[nyoffroad]

Look at my thread on fording kit for the deuce. I did this on mine and it works. You only need about 3PSI of pressure for 6 ft of water pressure. The problem is finding a regulator and pressure gauge that goes that low.

I had a regulator that went down to 1 psi, it had some dental manufacturing company's name on it. Sorry it's long gone but it might be a lead.

 

[antennaclimber]

Many microwave and broadcast antenna systems use 3-5 PSI for pressurizing the wave guide and air coax cables. New ones are available but expect to pay $300+ for a regulator with gauges.

 

[The FLU farm]

just curious if anyone has heard of putting air pressure on the differentials to keep water out.

Some Unimogs, and probably also other vehicles, came from the factory that way. Engage 4WD and the axles automatically get pressurized.

Many moons ago, a friend who (for whatever reason) thought that it would be fun to drive into lakes pressurized pretty much everything on his Jeep. Seeing bubbles coming out of the gauges was neat, and overall it did work well...until the day he got the intake for that system under water.

 

[ken]

Oh yea, now I remember why I set up my 1028 for deep water. Harvey is doing a good job. This is life in Houston!

 

[Barrman]

The M715 pressurized the engine, transmission, transfer case and axles with the fording kit. Engine blow by was the source of the air. The brake master, fuel pump and igniter were all sealed and vented to the air intake. The TM says to pull the lever and wait for the transmission shifter boot to inflate. Then go into the water. I have only seen it used in mud and it seemed to work.

Back to the original question. A M1009 is not water resistant in any way shape or form. Open the hood and stand at the drivers front tire. Look at all the wires going through the firewall plug to the back of the fuse panel. Water gets in there and if it doesn't short out right away, corrosion will get you in a while.

The drive line parts have already been mentioned. They are designed to keep lubricant in.

There also is the cooling fan, power steering pump and brake master cylinder. M35 and M715 manuals all say to loosen the fan belts before entering water so the fan doesn't take out the radiator. I don't know what the CUCV fan clutch would do when the fan hits water, but that is an expensive radiator to test on.