86 m1031 hard or no sart

[tripplew]

try to make this short and to the point I have checked the fuel system and don't think there is a problem. I replaced the glow plugs 4 at the time left side then the right (budget) worked for a wile now wont start again I have push button for the ground side of the relay as the glow card has never grounded it since I have owned it. I am getting 23.68 volts on the glow plug side of the relay did I ruin the glow plugs by only changing 4 at the time they are ac delco g60 help please

 

[cucvrus]

Sounds like you possibly have bad glow plugs. The only way to know is remove them on a budget and bench test them. It will take about 20 minutes MAX. 1/4" ratchet 3/8" deep socket and remove them. Be careful. They may have bulged. I just dip the tip in a bit of oil or grease and use a small battery charger. Clamp the negative onto the threads of the glow plug and touch the positive to the spade connector of the glow plug. It will spark and you should see smoke immediately. If you see nothing the plug is dead. Check each one and report back.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Why not just pull the GP wires off and check them with a test light? Always works for me, very quick to do and you don't have to re & re the plugs. I only pull plugs when replacing or bleeding filter/injectors. I've never had a bad AC60. I only replace one when needed, that wont cause them to fail.

 

[cucvrus]

That will work also. I just like to get a visual on them. I have had a few that had slight bulge and still worked. I discarded them and moved on to avoid future issues. I am strictly 13G AC Delco's. They have worked in my same vehicle for 20 years. Have i changed a few? Yes i did. But not many over the past 20 + years. I have some that have been in the same vehicle 20 + years. And either way to each his own. Remove them. Ohm them. Test light them. What ever works for you. i see no right way or wrong way. I just like the extra work and the eye ball view of the glow plugs and other things. Same as head gaskets. i remove them to check them. And so far I have been glad I did. Good Luck.

 

[dependable]

did I ruin the glow plugs by only changing 4 at the time they are ac delco g60 help please

Since you have not bypassed the big resistor on the firewall, and wired the GP relay to 12V, then yes, you could have ruined them by not replacing the whole set. The reason is that if one or more plugs are burned out, it increases the voltage to the ones that are still good.

By bypassing the resistor and feeding off 12V only (the same as the rest of the truck, except for the starter), all the plugs will see 12V (approximately) even if not all the plugs are good. If you want to leave it 24V, though the resistor, which drops to 12V under full load of 8 plugs, but more than 12V per plug if some are burnt out, than I suggest you replace plugs regularly and in full sets.

This is explained better in one ot CUCV 'stickys' at the top of the forum.

edit, here is one of them, telling how to do this; http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?121398-GP-Resistor-Bank-Bypass

 

[2deuce]

I have removed glow plugs and ohm tested them to find that they had different values. I never tested the questionable ones like Cucvrus does(I wish I had), I have tested them in the block with a light also. This makes me question the voltage value supplied through the resistor if some use more voltage than others and still work. If that is the case then the resistor may be suppling over 12 volts to all the glow plugs unless you bypass it. This also makes me think that it is probably better to keep all your plugs the same brand and model, so don't mix them, if you keep the resistor installed. It would matter much less if the resistor is bypassed with 12 volts. The truck I drive has the resistor in service and it starts easily and consistently. My sons M1009 has it bypassed after 2 full set replacements. I had my suspicions as to the cause, but the bypass cured the burn out problem and I don't remember ever changing a gp after that. I feel the resistor has more downside than up, especially if you don't investigate every starting problem or change immediately.
One thing to check out are the connectors that attach to your glow plugs, if they are original they may be loose and corroded and not let 12 volts reach the GP letting the resistor give the rest of the GP's over 12 volts and a short life. Remember if anybody does decide to bypass the resistor make sure you do it with 12 volts and not the 24 volts that is supplied to the resistor in it's stock configuration.

 

[cucvrus]

I always give the 3/16 spade on my glow plugs a little tweak with the pliers to make sure the spade is properly seated on the tab. I push it on until it is locked in place securely. I do have 3/16" spades in stock and have changed very few. Before I came on this page 4 years ago. I just dealt with my CUCV's and learned thru trial and error and what I learned at the Chevy dealer 30 + years ago. I never heard of half the things being done here. Back in the early / mid 90's I was driving CUCV's day in day out as daily drivers. And when at the dealer we just fixed them by the text books that GM gave us. Back when all GM parts were available. I had a local Chevrolet dealer get all my CUCV parts. So i had blue print CUCV's nothing was changed. maybe the color or a snowplow added. But for the most part. Hard working reliable vehicles that I could count on. After a few parts were discontinued I did look out for parts and found CUCV electric. Other then that they have just been fine and durable vehicles for years. Not all troublesome like some guys have here.

 

[2deuce]

I have a 2008 ford that is troublesome, and I can't do a thing on it, except change oil. So it's very expensive for me to repair. Most repairs have cost me more than a good CUCV.

Whenever I buy a CUCV, I get it because it won't run and usually hasn't for a few years. I have bought many from GSA and the agencies that had them got them free, and treated them like that, meaning they would not spend hardly anything on maintenance and parked them where they quit. One got stuck in a mudhole at a wildlife refuge and was in it a long time, before I got it. One was parked outside next to a manure pile at a State University dairy for a few years. That is the one my son drives. Issues come up because they got abused over the years plus parts wear out especially after 30 years. Problems and questions come up, more often with some of us because we don't rebuild them from the frame up like CUCVRUS has done. My hat's off to anyone that can and wants to do that, and thankful they share their knowledge with us here.

One thing I have seen is while they are reliable, tough built machines they can be improved upon. The M1031 has it's flaws and the M1010 has been improved upon too. I think stock, and original is best most of the time. If I make any changes to stock, I don't make anything that I can't return back to stock, if I don't like the change or a new owner doesn't either.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I am getting 23.68 volts on the glow plug side of the relay

You getting that when it's engaged, right? If so, your GPs are shot. Test them as mentioned above, but there's no way to get 24v at the GP side of the relay unless they are all open, or there is a break between that point and your GPs.


Sounds like you may have experienced a cascade failure, which is the reason for the GP resistor bypass that some recommend. What happens is that one GP opens (dies) and that increases the voltage to the rest of the GPs. That speeds up the failure of the next one. When it dies, that increases the voltage to the rest of hte GPs. That speeds up the failure of the next one, and so on.

If you are like cucvrus, and can hear when one is going bad, you just replace that one and no harm, no foul. Get on with life.

If you are a common mortal and don't know when one goes bad, and you have not done the resistor bypass, you will eventually experience a cascade failure.

Using a push button instead of the GP card makes it more likely you will overheat your GPs and shorten their life. Combine that with a stock 24v feed to the relay, and you are going to get bitten sooner or later.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Advice for "common mortal"s ; When you fire the truck up cold, if it runs rough at first, look in your mirrors..one side will be smoking. That's the bank to check the 4 glow plugs. Test to confirm which one went, replace. That's it..no complicated theoretical physics or quantum superposition involved. It's simple..and if it sounds like some voodoo trickery to you....well, I would suggest you check with your doctor, your meds may need adjusting.

I've used a push-button with AC60's for 12 years now. I get at least 4 years life out of one. That's with a first burn of twice the wait light period and up to 4 after-glow periods of 8-12 seconds depending on temps. Daily driver, starting at least twice a day. So I disagree with the blanket statement ; you'll overheat GP's and shorten their life.

 

[cucvrus]

Advice for "common mortal"s ; When you fire the truck up cold, if it runs rough at first, look in your mirrors..one side will be smoking. That's the bank to check the 4 glow plugs. Test to confirm which one went, replace. That's it..no complicated theoretical physics or quantum superposition involved. It's simple..and if it sounds like some voodoo trickery to you....well, I would suggest you check with your doctor, your meds may need adjusting.

I've used a push-button with AC60's for 12 years now. I get at least 4 years life out of one. That's with a first burn of twice the wait light period and up to 4 after-glow periods of 8-12 seconds depending on temps. Daily driver, starting at least twice a day. So I disagree with the blanket statement ; you'll overheat GP's and shorten their life.

I agree. In a nut shell that is how I can tell if I have bad 13 G glow plugs. On cold start up there should be no miss when the glow plugs are all firing. Thank you HASDRUBAL. Now I must get back to Gotham City. I think the Riddler is up to some new tricks on the Facebook page. Stay tuned for more CUCV action. Right here on the Steel Soldiers network. Sponsored by Knuckle Busters. The only way to get the job done when the job needs done. Or sit and look at the key board. Let me know how that goes for you.

 

[tripplew]

thanks every one for the helpful tips you guys are great! I think I will be getting 8 new g60 glow plugs and in stalling them on Monday after I bypass that useless resistor . don't understand why they wired it that way with the resistor seems problematic. im Shure that there probably got over voltage due to the way that resistor works every time I started it it got harder to start due to the cascading effect well lesson learned 100 dollars worth of glow plugs! we wont have this problem again!!by by resistor

 

[cpf240]

This would be a good time to follow the glow plug system troubleshooting guide in the -20 TM. That way, with your new glow plugs, you can be sure the system is working correctly and not risk burning up the new glow plugs. A voltmeter and 30 minutes time is about all that is needed.

 

[dependable]

. don't understand why they wired it that way with the resistor seems problematic.

The resistor set up is for jump starting off another 24V vehicle, the way it is originally wired the glow system is supposed to work even if the truck being jumped has dead batteries. That is the theory anyway.

 

[tripplew]

UPDATE got all the glow plugs out and several of them are open and the others measure about 2m ohms (might as well be ol) and successfully bypassed the resistor. looking for glow plugs on Sunday

 

[2deuce]

Have you tested the voltage at the GP solenoid? When the resistor is bypassed it must be 12v and not 24v.

dependable, I believe I've started CUCV's with the resistor bypassed with a slave cable. Possibly it won't work if your batteries are so sulfated that they won't allow any current to pass through them. I will have to double check that M1009 I recently jumped tomorrow to make sure it was bypassed.

 

[dependable]

dependable, I believe I've started CUCV's with the resistor bypassed with a slave cable. Possibly it won't work if your batteries are so sulfated that they won't allow any current to pass through them. I will have to double check that M1009 I recently jumped tomorrow to make sure it was bypassed.

I have slave jumped a CUCV with dead batteries and the bypass also, but it took several minutes for charge to build, if I recall. The charge delay would not be acceptable in military terms, no doubt. I guess I could test this for sure too, as I have CUCVs both with and without bypass. I'll try to do that next time I have some dead batteries and feel like doing some extra lifting, ha ha.

 

[tripplew]

got it running thank again

 

[2deuce]

I haven't forgotten to check for the bypass in the recently slave jumped M1009. There is 6 inches of snow on the hood that has taken me out of the mood for now. I'm almost certain I've jumped it and others successfully. The batteries may have had a low charge, and probably were not totally dead.