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936A2 hydraulic winch power question!

ProPower

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Does anybody know if it is possible to turn up the hydraulic winch pump on a 936! Yes I know this could be dangerous and Im not looking for critics or any other BS! I just need a little more power out of the rear deck winch cause personally I think its a turd and doesnt even come close to the power a 20 ton ramsey bed has with 5/8 cable. And yes Ive tried all the snatch blocks and such!
 

73m819

Rock = older than dirt , GA. MAFIA , Dirty
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How much are you trying to pull, the 45,000 lb 936 rear winch was down rated to 1/2 of the 45,000 lb original rating because the hyds.will not meet the demand, it seems that engineers/designers did not talk to each other about the winch hyd. demands.
 
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73m819

Rock = older than dirt , GA. MAFIA , Dirty
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Some interesting data

Take a look at the cable load charts below, the 5-1 ratio is for over head use, the 3 1/5-1 ratio is for winch work, this chart is for NEW wire rope with a WIRE core, a fiber core (which our front winches have) cable has less SWL loading then shown, so just because someone has a 45,000 lb , a 20,000 lb, or a 10,000 lb winch, DOES NOT mean you can put this on the cable.

The factor of safety for all fibre ropes is 5. For ropes used to hoist or support personnel, it is 10.

As a example a 45,000 lb rear wrecker winch uses 3/4" steel core cable, it has a breaking strength of 58.000 lbs NEW, so with a bit of use, maybe a bit of corrosion, I can see that 58,000 down to maybe 50,000, now with a bit of OVERLOAD, a bit of rub wear, maybe a minor kink, ect. I can see that 50,000 down to 40,000, with things getting WORSE every time the winch is used, the above example is WHY there IS a SAFE WORKING LOAD (SWL) ratio.

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/lifting/winches/wireropechart.htm

Fiber core load chart, notice the difference in the two charts
http://www.truckntow.com/productspecs/WireRope.pdf
 
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DrillerSurplus

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Does anybody know if it is possible to turn up the hydraulic winch pump on a 936! Yes I know this could be dangerous and Im not looking for critics or any other BS! I just need a little more power out of the rear deck winch cause personally I think its a turd and doesnt even come close to the power a 20 ton ramsey bed has with 5/8 cable. And yes Ive tried all the snatch blocks and such!
I don't know about the M936, but I have some of the M916A1 with 45,000 pound winches and we use many different hydraulic winches in the drilling business. The Unit Maintenance Manual TM 9-2320-363-20-1 for the M916A1 didn't have anything, but in the more comprehensive Direct & General Support Maintenance Manual TM 9-2320-363-34-1 it says the hydraulic pressure should be 2,500 pounds for the winch. I'd guess the 936's hydraulic system would be pretty similar, so that would be the first thing to check in the 936 TM. If the pressure isn't 2,500 (or whatever the TM for the 936 says it should be), you would have to troubleshoot the system to see where the issue is.

If pressure is up to spec, you could get possibly get more pull by turning the relief pressure up, but most of these military hyd systems have non adjustable relief valves to prevent that for good reasons. The hoses on these systems are usually single wire and can't take much more than 2,500 psi and I'd guess the valves, pump and motor have similar pressure ratings so if you turned the pressure up enough to do any good, other components would likely start failing in a pretty dramatic way.

I have seen where the pressure is right and the winch still doesn't pull what it should. The only way to be sure if it is pulling what it is rated at is to lift a known weight that is close to the rating or hook it up to a crane scale (dynamometer). Something like -Dillon Crane Weight Scale If you can borrow or rent a crane scale, it is almost the best place to start since it lets you know if the winch has a problem or if you need to adjust your expectations.

If the winch isn't pulling what it should, and the hydraulic pressure is up to spec, then it is most likely the hydraulic motor is bad or a less likely possibility is that the winch's safety brake is not fully releasing.
 

Csm Davis

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I have heard that it can be turned up but not done it. But as Ron said the rear winches have been derated for some reason and unlike Ron I don't think it was because of the pump, as I have one that will pull as hard as mine on my 816. I think the military found out that the cables were not holding up for the wll safety factor. Regardless of the reasons they were turned down as I pointed out in a different thread check the -10 under labels and it shows the ratings for single and double sheve which I think is like 28, 000.
 
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