A Few Deuce Questions

[Reaper651]

Hey All,
I went up to look at the M35A2 that I'm in the process of buying last weekend and I have a couple questions. 1: The transmission is a TMC 3053 transmission. I'm wondering, what is the difference between a 3053 and a 3053A and who is TMC? The data plate said Wolverhampton England or something like that. 2: The VIN number on the frame matches the cab plate, however, it seems to be lightly stamped on the frame and one of the numbers is there but hard to read. The VIN looks like it was stamped after being painted. Is the number stamped before painting so its actually in the steel? Might this be a problem with DMV? 3: I looked all over the truck trying to determine if its been overhauled or not. Any dates I found were March of 71 which according to the data plate info, is when the truck was made. Everything on the truck seems to be in like new condition and almost all of the bolt heads have what looks to be original paint on them. Is there a definite way to tell if the truck has been overhauled? 4: I looked at the front axle closely on my truck, I noticed the boots on the axle are the one piece rubber boots and not the ones with the zipper. Is this normal? Also, the data plate on the axle is Blue. Its a Rockwell FC240 HX11. There was something in a old thread about a blue data plate having the U-joint style axle shafts and not the CV's. Is that True? I know some of this has probably been covered but, too much time reading threads that don't really answer the questions gets old quickly. Thanks in advance.

 

[cattlerepairman]

The UK built trannys are identical to the US built ones. They pop up in trucks once in a while, it appears. The 3053 vs. 3053A discussion http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?5535-Spicer-3053-Transmission did not come up with any conclusive differences between the two, nor did this one http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?19512-3053-trans-OD-or-not ; the overdrive gear in the 3053 is supposedly "faster", but info is conflicting. It is safe to assume that 3053 and 3053A are basically the same.

It seems you are looking at a nice truck. The boots on the front axle being one piece means that the front axle was disassembled/serviced to put them on. It could be original from 197?, but is likely "just" a rebuilt axle (blue tag).

I cannot help you with the VIN; there is one on the frame (where is it? driver's side wheel well on the frame rail?) and one in the cab and they both match..that is all that would interest me.

The trucks have been worked on, had components replaced and could have been gutted for parts or completely rebuilt while in service. Who knows. What you see is what you get.

 

[porkysplace]

Dates on the engine tag , axle tags ect. may give some insight if they have been replaced. But doesn't mean the truck was rebuilt.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Blue data plate doesn't really mean much. U-joint style axles were in the later model trucks, or in trucks that had axles replaced with later production axles. I do not know exactly when the u-joint axles were introduced into production, but I would like to know as well.

 

[m16ty]

I think all the Rockwell axles have the u-joints. All the ones with the "claw" joint that I've seen were Timken axles.

I've got a straight 3053 trans in one of my trucks. I can't tell any difference in it from the others.

Don't get too hung up on rebuild tags, swapped parts, and such. These trucks were in service a long time and anything could have been changed or rebuilt or not. Just look at the general condition of the truck.

The main thing to make sure is that the frame number matches the title. The truck does have a title doesn't it?

 

[Reaper651]

I think all the Rockwell axles have the u-joints. All the ones with the "claw" joint that I've seen were Timken axles.

I've got a straight 3053 trans in one of my trucks. I can't tell any difference in it from the others.

Don't get too hung up on rebuild tags, swapped parts, and such. These trucks were in service a long time and anything could have been changed or rebuilt or not. Just look at the general condition of the truck.

The main thing to make sure is that the frame number matches the title. The truck does have a title doesn't it?

Thanks for the info. No there is no title. BUT, I am dealing with a registration company that has already titled these trucks without a SF-97. And In California, a bill of sale is all that's needed to apply for and get a new title. Trust me, this was the BIG Red Flag on this truck. I have spent the last month talking with DMV and the registration company and I'm assured it will be ok. LOL The DMV Sacramento office must hate me by now.

Edit: I almost forgot, is TMC part of the Spicer company?

 

[Jeepsinker]

Don't give him any money until you have a title in hand.

 

[LowTech]

What he's saying about bill of sale is right for trailers, I don't know that it's right for trucks.

 

[welldigger]

Tmc was probably a contract rebuilder for the transmissions. I think mine was redone by driveco. Which went defunct in the early 2000's.

 

[Reaper651]

What he's saying about bill of sale is right for trailers, I don't know that it's right for trucks.

I am told by both DMV and the registration company I'm dealing with that the BOS is all that's needed to get a new title for a truck.

Don't give him any money until you have a title in hand.

The problem is, there was never a title for this truck. It was bought by a private community and was never planned to be driven on public streets. Trust me, I agree with you about the title but it simply does not exist for this truck. Luckily, California is one of the few states that will make a title for a truck with only a BOS. DMV and the registration company have both made it clear that I CAN get a title for it. Lol I have lost a good bit of sleep and grown a few grey hairs over this subject.

 

[Reaper651]

Tmc was probably a contract rebuilder for the transmissions. I think mine was redone by driveco. Which went defunct in the early 2000's.

So the transmission IS a Spicer? It was just rebuilt by TMC?

 

[welldigger]

So the transmission IS a Spicer? It was just rebuilt by TMC?

Yes more than likely. The data plates on both my transmission and transfer case say driveco or driverco. Can't remember at the moment exactly how it was spelled. Point being, both my tranny and t/c are spicer. They were just rebuilt by that company who had their own data plate. Neither my transmission or t/c say spicer anywhere on them.
Look at the model # stamped on the data plate on the transmission. I'd bet it says 3053 or 3053a. I could be wrong. But that's what my gut is telling me.

 

[Reaper651]

Yes more than likely. The data plates on both my transmission and transfer case say driveco or driverco. Can't remember at the moment exactly how it was spelled. Point being, both my tranny and t/c are spicer. They were just rebuilt by that company who had their own data plate. Neither my transmission or t/c say spicer anywhere on them.
Look at the model # stamped on the data plate on the transmission. I'd bet it says 3053 or 3053a. I could be wrong. But that's what my gut is telling me.

Yep, It says 3053.

 

[Reaper651]

I almost forgot one thing. My truck has "DF-1" painted in white on the outside left rear corner of the cab about 2 inches under the plug for the jumper cable. Its not too important but I was wondering if anyone might know what it means? Its funny, the more times I crawl around the truck, the more markings I find. Lol I need to get this thing bought and to my house. Driving the 56 miles to go see it are starting to cost too much but I cant help it! Thanks again for the info everyone.

 

[wreckerman893]

Here is something to think about when dealing with deuces. I went in the Army in 1972 and drove deuces all over Germany in 75-76.

The M35 Deuces served all branches of the military for over 50 years and there may still be a few on active duty and in reserve units.

Back in the day when the Army was poor if you needed a part or tires, the first place you went was to the closest Cannibalization yard to look for it. There was just no money for ordering parts unless the vehicle was mission critical.

This continued until at least the 90's because we had a CANPOINT at Fort Benning when I was there. We actually had a deuce that was "off the books" and had been built from recycled parts. We dragged the frame in from of one of the ranges and "Frankentruck" evolved. The old Johnny Cash song "I got it one piece at a time" may well have been the inspiration for it.

It may still be floating around Benning somewhere. Ironically it was one of the most reliable trucks in the Motor Pool. Bored GI's will find strange things to do to amuse themselves. We spent a lot of time changing bumper numbers and hiding it during IG inspections. But I digress.

The trucks in those yards dated as far back as the 50's and I remember seeing perfectly good gasser trucks being cut up. If a part was a close fit a good mechanic could make it work. So it's possible that your truck could have received donor parts from all kinds of deuces and their variants during it's lifetime.

Just my rambling thoughts for what they're worth.