+/- A3 vs A2 Comments!

[Snarky]

Uhh, I heard the A3 was slower do to the lack of an overdrive transmission?

Also isn't it a 4 speed? So less gears with the final gear at 1:1?

I imagine the bigger tires on the A3 make up for it. But I have 15.5s on my A2 with the OD tranny.

 

[lonegunman]

Apples and Oranges. I'm always suprised at the hate from a small percentage of the A2 crowd. Oddly enough it is not that hard for an A3 owner to like A2's also, but for some A2 guys it causes rage for an A3 owner to enjoy his truck.

I doubt anyone can rebuild a multi-fuel engine for less than 400 dollars or buy a rebuilt multi-fuel for less than two 400 dollar services. The service on the dreaded CAT 3116 is required every 2000 hours or 100,000 miles. Do you really think there are a lot of truck collectors out there planning on putting 250,000 miles on a deuce? ANY deuce?

The A3 has low production numbers, mine for instance is 12 years old. The are going to be rare by any standard in the future. The driveline is full of common parts that are currently stocked for commerical trucks and according to those who actually own them, they run fine.

Since nobody here is going into combat, the survial in combat is not that important.

As far as replacing the M35 series of trucks, the army did not do it to be cool. The cab size of an M35 is restrictive to fat americans, guys in chem suits and body armor and the seating position is not that comfortable. The non-direction tires are old technology, the manual trans are not common in the civilian world, the manual steering is hard for 150 pound women to drive. They are loud, dirty and labor intensive.

If you have to up-armor a series of trucks and you have a budget, you really should go with one series. FMTV cabs have a lot in common and the armor swaps, M35 armor won't fit 5 tons or anything else for that matter.

They had a good run of service and I'm sure you will find a deuce parked outside an armory someplace for another twenty years. My first guard unit had a couple of mid- 1960's non-turbos that were like new, they used them at summer camp and for fire season and loved them. They turned them over to the forest service or the BLM last summer.

I'm hoping to bid on some of their other trucks if they actually make it to auction just for the sake of owning a truck I drove in the military. And I won't be bitter because it is an A2 and cost less than my A3.

 

[markmontana]

lonegunman- that would be very cool to have a truck that you drove while you were active duty. My dad, a Korean War vet, really wants to go for a drive in a truck he drove during the war. I think I'm going to make it happen one day soon.

And he really likes my A3!!!

 

[lonegunman]

In 1995 for the 50th anniversery of WWII I bought my dad a Garand. He had shot a few over the years but never owned one. He used to joke that one of his buddies was from Texas and insisted on a Winchester, so I got him one. He was very happy to celebrate D-day that year.

A deuce to go tooling with your Dad would be cool.

 

[bassetdeuce]

Does the Allison in the A3 allow for bump starting? Most automatics don't, but is there a way on the Allison? Something I've wondered about.

 

[jpinst]

Just read the manual. Its a CAT motor, but it can take 3 kinds of furel. If I rememeber correctly, diesle, av gas a kerosene. I don't know wat they did to it. I think that is a requirement for heavy trucks.

 

[velociT]

Just read the manual. Its a CAT motor, but it can take 3 kinds of furel. If I rememeber correctly, diesle, av gas a kerosene. I don't know wat they did to it. I think that is a requirement for heavy trucks.

Not av gas, but JP8.

Av Gas is typically leaded high octane gasoline.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I can't speak from experience about the -A3 from an operational standpoint, I just like the looks and simplicity of the -A2. You -A3 guys.....carry on!

 

[militarysteel]

i would like to know what bump starting means,
also, because this is a comments thread, i like the m35a2 the best, i like they are cheap, i like i can push start it, i like the way it looks better - and i am not just saying that because i don't own the A3, my brother just bought 2 and last weekend we drove them around all day, the cat engine sounds just like a GD school bus, the automatic transmission just shifts ODD, they both shift odd, i guess its a Allison thing. With the A3 i do not like super singles, the NDT Dully in the back just seem right, like how the A2 is. I do not like how the hood was reshaped with the A3, with the sheet metal and rivets it has this frankenstine look about it.

i like the stock loud, simple j-pipe exhaust of the A2 more. i also like the air cleaner assam of the A2 better.

the ctis seems like a nifty feature, but i see ( from my point of view ) as something that is not really needed, maybe in a combat situation the CTIS is very usefull, for 90% of people like us, its another thing to break.

the M35A2 is exactly what a Military truck should be, looks , features, options, the only thing if you are lucky enough to get air assist steering for your A2 then you are golden.

i like manual transmission, and i like the Multifuel, they are great simple motors, very easy to re-build and work on.

one thing i will say about the A3, the mother likes driving it around...

 

[bassetdeuce]

i would like to know what bump starting means,
also, because this is a comments thread, i like the m35a2 the best, i like they are cheap, i like i can push start it, i like the way it looks better ...

Bump start, push start, whatever. Militarysteel, you answered your own question. Pop the clutch n go. A very useful feature for a disabled starting system, if you are on a hill or have another vehicle for giving you a rolling start.

 

[militarysteel]

yes a useful feature.

 

[SEAFIRE]

Posted by ALFA2:

At some point someone here will find a way to put a non computer Auto trans into an A2, and maybe already have done so.

The Canadian version of the M35, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the MLVW, has a [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8.2L Detroit Diesel engine with a Allison Automatic MT-643[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
However the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MT643 lists as a 4-speed tranny, maybe some MLVW owners can pitch in and say how fast these trucks go.
[/FONT]

 

[rwoods]

In my quest to document #500001, I came across the attached promotional piece. I couldn't get the third page to scan properly (I hate software that wants to help me that I can't disable).

You diehard A2 guys can spin the title on page 2 and you diehard A3 guys can take the whole thing as gospel and forget that it is a promotional piece. Irrespective of your position, I hope all enjoy it.

Ron

 

[militarysteel]

nice post -

 

[saddamsnightmare]

May 16th, 2010.

RWoods:

Thanks for the article on the M35A2/M35A3's.... A worthy piece in any case. Based on the mileages I have seen on some M35A3's for sale on GL & elsewhere, Uncle seems not to have gotten the full use of these trucks, even though they are now only hitting the 15 year limit. Is it mileage, or chronological time, that kills trucks? I think, perhaps he got better service out of most of the M35A2's based on the number or rebuilt trucks I have seen...
Just a thought.

Thanks again,

 

[lonegunman]

I read a document from an officer who studied the ESP program and made some observations as to it's effectiveness. It noted that the three trucks salvaged for the construction of the two "NEW" A3's were typically much higher than the predicted 66% salvagable parts rate, usually closer to 79%. The value of the salvaged parts was around 29,000 dollars and the average miles per salvaged truck was around 20,488 miles. The salvage trucks were all 25 years old or older.

The writer observed that if the Army had done better research on the condition of the trucks it could have either saved money or purchased more trucks with the same number of donor trucks. The A3 was slated for guard and reserve use and expected to get at least 20% less use than active duty trucks, thus live a longer useful life. He also stated that an inventory in the mid-1980's put the total number of A2's at about 45,000 trucks. They may have used 15,000 on the A3 program.

When speculating as to why the rates were so much higher than predicted the writer notes that the truck is a "robust design" made during a period of "slide rule engineering where larger tolerances were the norm". Compared to a modern computer designed truck with tight tolerances. He also noted the M35 is a 5 ton capable truck used to haul 2.5 tons cross country, thus it is stronger than any conventional 2.5 ton truck. This he felt was a reason that the trucks had far less wear and tear than expected when salvaged. I'm guessing the reason the A3 is GVW'd for 18,900 is that the army planned on using it as a true 2.5 ton truck and ignoring the previous 5 ton on road rating all together.

Some other notes from the writer are that the M35A2 could not legally be on the road in California in 1993 as it was a pollution hog and other than for the emergency of the LA riots, it would not have been allowed in LA. Concern over the trucks ability to meet modern standards was an issue for the army. The failure of the engines to meet EPA guidelines, compatable parts with the new FMTV and more modern and safer brakes and seating/seat belts were all the pressing highlights of the program.

One thing I found when looking for A3 information was that the first 4900 or so FMTV trucks were disappointing to the Army, they had corrosion problems and other issues that caused the army to withhold a portion of the contract for repairs of the already delivered trucks.

So it appears M35 owners of any stripe will end up with a truck that will never be designed or built again. for all the comforts it lacks in either form, it is tougher than it's replacement. Nobody using CAD is ever going to overbuild like they did in the good old days.

Apparently, Oskosh has had an Extended Service Program underway for the HEMTT-LHS for years.

 

[rwoods]

Here's a link for those interested. Makes you wonder what a ESP 5 ton would have been like. Also makes you wonder what we would have had if Cummings had gotten the A3 contract instead of Am General. http://ve.ida.org/rtoc/open/briefings_articles/brownnd.pdf

Here is a second link which indicates the Extended Service Program was meant to supply the Reserves and the NG with our active forces getting the new replacement FMTV's.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA276000&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Ron

 

[tm america]

a couple great things the a3 has is the auto trans,power steering, and split brake system. as much as an a2 will limp back after combat damage how easy is it for a driver that sustained combat damage to drive? How easy is it for a soldier to drive a stick without power steering after being shot in the arm?how huch would you apreciate having the extra power and acceleration of an a3 when being shot at .these things are easy to overlook in the civy world most of us are driving in.As far as not being able to find parts or them being expensive?i know the a3 trans came in every brand medium duty truck or school buss made and can be had for 200-500 all day .there are places online that have thousands of them.The motor came in many medium duty trucks to. But they will cost a little more as they fail often