About to buy first deuce - haul 12,000 lbs

[TNHogFarmer]

Hello everyone. I'm about to buy my first military vehicle in March. I need it to haul 10,000-12,000 lbs loads of liquid spent mash from a distillery in Nashville about 30 miles back to the farm. I make a couple of trips per week.
I'd like to hear from others who have carried this amount of weight on a deuce. What is it like?
I'm currently hauling this load with a 1964 Chevrolet C-60 dump truck. 19,500 gvwr. I'm used to manual steering and few creature comforts. It has a single master cylinder with vacuum assist. I refer to them as delay brakes. I test drove the deuce, empty, and the brakes felt better than my Chevrolet.
I hope the third axle will make the load feel more stable than my current setup.
Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[wreckerman893]

I'd recommend a 900 series 5 ton with the 8.3 Cummins turbo diesel in it. The deuce will pull that weight but it won't like it. You will be a "Toad in the road" in traffic.

The 900 trucks are flooding the market and you can get one for about the same price as a nice deuce. They also ride a lot better and have power steering and an Allison automatic.

I've driven both (own a M927A2) and for what you want to do the 5 ton will serve you much better.

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

 

[theeDIZ]

Deuces aren't known for their comfy ride and they are slow before being loaded

 

[cattlerepairman]

Good advice. A Deuce was designed to haul light to medium loads over rudimentary roads. It was not designed to haul heavy and it was not designed as an OTR truck. Just because it can does not mean it should. A Deuce will haul 10k lbs. At 12k lbs you will be overweight, as per data plate. In any case, you will be slow. Do you care? For you to decide. A one-off trip to the dump or hauling some gravel home is one thing, but you want to do a 60 mile round trip on public roads twice a week with some regularity.
I'd consider one of the other options.

 

[TNHogFarmer]

I've spent plenty of time in a 900 (923?)series truck. I don't remember them having a turbo, but that was almost 20 years ago. I'm not a fan of automatic transmissions either. My knee hit the turn signal switch in the 800 (817?) series when operating the clutch back then. I'm sure my table muscle would rub the steering wheel now. And, I'd double that load if I bought a 5 ton.

I've got someone local willing to sell me his deuce. It's got a fresh injector pump, and runs well.

My C-60 is not equipped with shock absorbers. Nowhere to mount them either. I'm used to a rough ride. I cruse it about 53 mph empty, and 47-50 loaded. GPS speed.

 

[kubotaman]

You may of spent time in a M923/A1. Those versions used a regular Cummins NHC-250. The A2 series, used the turbo on the 8.3. If you want to overload you trucks, go head, it is your truck, but it will cause more wear and tare on them and you will be replacing parts quicker.

The autos in the truck work great. We enjoy driving our M939 trucks with various different cargo. You also need a CDL for a 5 ton.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I would explain to the seller the purpose of your purchase and request that he let you try it to make sure it can do what you are buying it to do. I doubt that you would be see much performance difference between your C60 and the deuce. Stability would probably be better but also plan a budget for upkeep as its an unknown truck.

 

[AZK9]

I'd recommend a 900 series 5 ton with the 8.3 Cummins turbo diesel in it.
The deuce will pull that weight but it won't like it. You will be a "Toad in the road" in traffic....

I love my deuce, but for what you are planning to do with one... I've got to agree with Wreckerman893.

BTW... welcome and good luck!

 

[TNHogFarmer]

Thanks for the replies and warm welcome. I appreciate all the help I can get.

So, y'all don't believe a 2.5 ton will achieve the 40 mph minimum speed for interstate travel with a 10,000 lb load the truck is rated to haul?

The current owner has agreed to let me take it for a test haul. I'm waiting for a day he can go along.

Can anyone with experience driving one of these trucks with approximately 5 tons on the bed comment on how the truck performed loaded?

 

[M543A2]

I have hauled 200 bushel of grain on my deuce. The only thing I do not like is the fact the rear tandems are locked together with no power divider in all military trucks. I removed one of the axle shafts on the front rear axle and covered the opening with a cap I made. That allowed that axle to freewheel so I was not scuffing the tires. If you are familiar with tandem trucks you know they have a power divider built into the differential of the front rear axle. It is a differential that allows the two rear axles to run independent of each other but still be under power. There is a switch on the dash that locks this differential so both are pulling together for off-road or slick road conditions. The switch has a warning on it not to lock the differential for dry road conditions. This is because no matter how hard you try you cannot exactly match all eight tires on diameter and air pressure. With this inevitable miss-match some tires will be wanting to turn at a different rate than others and the locked condition causes tire wear and differential heating and wear.
As far as a toad in the road I put our deuce up against anyone who wants to take the challenge that it is not. We have towed 5 ton trucks with it and routinely pull a Ferree 18 ton tandem axle air brake trailer with machinery like a Massey Ferguson 1155 farm tractor and a dozer on it. Not all deuces will do it in a satisfactory way though if they are not turned up on power. Before everyone chastises me for that, being able to do it successfully depends on the knowledge and experience of the owner/driver and having gauges to monitor the engine temperatures. I guess us farmers from operating equipment under the conditions we routinely do for years have an advantage there.
So, my biggest concern for your idea is the locked rear axles. This is true for the 900 series suggested here also. The deuce is quite simple in its operating and electrical systems but when you get into the 900 series you are getting into a much more complex truck with computer controlled systems that can be tricky to maintain and contribute to down time you do not need when you want to depend on the truck every day. Two of my friends who have them are not happy with this situation. I am sure other 900 series owners have not had problems so as with all things mechanical, it just depends on the luck of the draw too many times.

 

[daytonatrbo]

I have hauled 200 bushel of grain on my deuce. The only thing I do not like is the fact the rear tandems are locked together with no power divider in all military trucks. I removed one of the axle shafts on the front rear axle and covered the opening with a cap I made. That allowed that axle to freewheel so I was not scuffing the tires. If you are familiar with tandem trucks you know they have a power divider built into the differential of the front rear axle. It is a differential that allows the two rear axles to run independent of each other but still be under power. There is a switch on the dash that locks this differential so both are pulling together for off-road or slick road conditions. The switch has a warning on it not to lock the differential for dry road conditions. This is because no matter how hard you try you cannot exactly match all eight tires on diameter and air pressure. With this inevitable miss-match some tires will be wanting to turn at a different rate than others and the locked condition causes tire wear and differential heating and wear.

I've been seeing folks talking about putting the aftermarket front selectable hubs on the middle axle. It seems like an acceptable solution.

 

[TNHogFarmer]

I was unaware the truck didn't have a power divider. I felt it scooching in his gravel driveway while making a sharp turn. I thought the front axle may have been engaged. Now I know!

I had already poo pooed the thought of a 900 series for the automatic transmission. Now they have computers too? Out of the question for sure now. Not for me. K.I.S.S. !

What about removing the driveshaft to the rear axle to avoid the problem of no power divider? My father had a C-80 and the intermediate axle was the only one powered in it.

 

[skinnyR1]

I've loaded mine a bit over 10k a couple of times. On flat roads, it did just fine. Going up hills was slow goin though, and there are many hills around my house. I end up driving the truck like I hate it, floored everywhere watching the gauges go up and down. I surely wouldn't want to drive it loaded every day, but it sure is fun every once in a while. Mine is on singles, so it doesn't feel all that stable with the big loads in the back. If you leave it dualed, it would probably be better for the heavy weight.

My biggest concern, which is always in my head whether loaded or not, is the brakes. But as long as you are confident in the up keep of your equipment, it should be fine.

 

[daytonatrbo]

I was unaware the truck didn't have a power divider. I felt it scooching in his gravel driveway while making a sharp turn. I thought the front axle may have been engaged. Now I know!

I had already poo pooed the thought of a 900 series for the automatic transmission. Now they have computers too? Out of the question for sure now. Not for me. K.I.S.S. !

What about removing the driveshaft to the rear axle to avoid the problem of no power divider? My father had a C-80 and the intermediate axle was the only one powered in it.

Removing the short driveshaft from between the axles should work fine, but removing the axle shafts from the axle of your choice would probably be better. You would see less drag, and they are probably more accessible.

I believe other folks have used the bearing caps from the front axle to cover up the hubs with the axles out.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

CAUTIONARY NOTE:


One of the fundamental RULES of the STEELSOLDIERS forums is to NOT endorse, encourage or promote ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

Since your basic mission involves the regular and routine operation of a deuce-and-a-half OVERLOADED by as much as 20% with a COMMERCIAL (agricultural) Load, my first reflex was to CLOSE this THREAD.

However, suggestions of alternate vehicle choices and axle options have contributed valuable information to this topic.

Further direct discussion of OVERWEIGHT operation is contrary to the "promotion" of the safe use of these former Military Vehicles and could jeopardize the future availability of FMVs and their use on the the Public Highways. Therefore, please limit all discussion to those parameters.
Thank you.

 

[TNHogFarmer]

Sorry for causing problems with my first post. Since someone brought up 12,000 being over the weight limit, I've been asking about a 10,000 lb load. I haven't bought the truck yet, and didn't remember what the data plate said.

I have googled and searched for the gvwr for these trucks. I can't find any solid answers.

 

[porkysplace]

The gvwr for a M35A2 is 23,030 pounds, from the data plate.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

The term DEUCE AND A HALF equates to the rated OFF-ROAD capacity of 2-1/2 Tons of cargo (troops? LOL), whereas the ON-ROAD (improved/pavement) capacity is rated at 5 Tons (10,000 lbs.). Taking this into account, along with the data plate's empty weights, you will find that those general weight capacity based names fit quite well.

Similarly, 5-Ton Trucks are OFF-ROAD rated for 5 Tons, ON-ROAD @ 10 Tons.

 

[TNHogFarmer]

Porkysplace, thank you for the gvwr.

If any moderators want to edit this from 12 to 10 to keep the red flags down, please go ahead.

And the way I understand gvwr, it's the vehicle weight plus the payload. So a big rig pulling an aluminium trailer could haul more weight than one with a steel trailer.

And on that note, the bedsides will be in the way for my needs. They will probably go away with the torch and grinder.
So if someone removed the winch and hard top, and also put on a lighter bed, could you not use those weight savings to then increase the carried load?

I wasn't deliberately trying to ask about carrying an illegal weight. I'm just having trouble finding people on here who work their trucks. I did find one post where someone reported about carrying different amounts of coal, and the effects on performance. But that person had removed one rear axle.

 

[daytonatrbo]

Porkysplace, thank you for the gvwr.

If any moderators want to edit this from 12 to 10 to keep the red flags down, please go ahead.

And the way I understand gvwr, it's the vehicle weight plus the payload. So a big rig pulling an aluminium trailer could haul more weight than one with a steel trailer.

And on that note, the bedsides will be in the way for my needs. They will probably go away with the torch and grinder.
So if someone removed the winch and hard top, and also put on a lighter bed, could you not use those weight savings to then increase the carried load?

I wasn't deliberately trying to ask about carrying an illegal weight. I'm just having trouble finding people on here who work their trucks. I did find one post where someone reported about carrying different amounts of coal, and the effects on performance. But that person had removed one rear axle.

My truck with no winch and the tailgate removed crossed the scales right around 12600lbs. So that leaves 10430lbs for payload.

You could remove the bed and put on an aluminum flatbed, that might save you another 600lbs or so.

Not sure you'll be able to remove 2000lbs worth of total weight without doing something that would reduce the strength of the truck.