I've been working on my AC system for a few weeks now, I started some time after reading the above thread and feel like I have a little more to contribute to it I know this is LONG but I felt it needed to be in order to address some of the issues and special considerations with a Deuce and most other MV's.
Quickly "about me" so you know where I am coming from... I tend to research things to death and poke up and down every avenue in the process before plunking my hard earned cash down on new toys. Being POOR I decided the best route to research everything mentioned and then some... I have 19 combined years in auto, diesel, small and heavy equipment, welding, machine and fab, aircraft, hydraulics, electronics, HAVC, and a few other ventures than don't pertain. I don't know everything but I know a lot about most things and I can screw something up just as bad (if not worse) than the next guy!!!
For all of the function and usefulness to a MV having a AC system was NEVER a considered option on these things... The electrical issues of 12V vs. 24V can be over come by using 24V parts but it does not elevate the cost or frustration of finding them. It is very possible to install a 12V AC system into your truck but I would never consider doing this with a transformer or "inverter". The load requirements of a 12V AC system are up there when added together... Condenser fan - 15amps... Evaporator fan - 20amps... Compressor clutch - 20amps... Servos, relays, etc add a few more; now your feeding a 60 power monger through a 24V "step down" of some type or another on a 60 -80 amp charging system... Doesn't take long to see the problems coming. So you ether install an "add on" 80amp 12V system into your rig or look else where...
With 24V you can more or less cut the amperage numbers down by about 50 - 60% being that the higher the voltage the less the amperage. Now were in the 30amp range which is a lot more manageable on a stock 60-80amp charging system. With this thinking I started mulling over what to do and hit the next wall with vacuum. There are a billion variations to AC but im sticking with the 3 types of basic AC controls in automotive applications there are cable (very old) vacuum (standard and very common) and servo driven (becoming more the standard in today's cars). You can put in a "pod" which is a stand alone system made to go between seats, etc but cab space is at a premium in theses things as is... Diesels have nil for vacuum so you have to axe the most common type AC systems unless you want to install a vacuum pump on your rig. Cable are available and are made in kit form, some can be found in pre 1980s cars and trucks so it is possible to do some salvage work but then your going to get into the R12 / R134 modifications and dilemmas which I will blurb through later. Servos are the best functioning systems but I have to date not located a 24V set up, so its ether 12V or bust on that one.
Other fruit for thought on a AC system...
Climate - Im in Florida... its F' ING HOT here (sorry there is no better way to sum it up!) The system has got to be able to transfer the heat and do so quickly and easily.
Insulation and air leaks - I plan on doing a LOT of insulation, under coating and sealing but I know I can not get everything as well as I would like to so the system is going to have to cope with a certain amount of loss due to vehicle design.
Glass - Great heat transfer, horrible insulator... There is a good bit of glass to a Deuce and being that I added a 18" X 50" rear slider to my hard top Im not helping... Window tint is going to be a must but again the system is going to have to over come vehicle and dumb owner design.
Paint - Lets not forget the dark OD green! Not much for reflection...
Heavy Truck - These things shake like they ought to and are build for on and off road use. Aluminum parts, tubing and compression fittings really have no place on these (or any) heavy truck. O ring (tube or fore seal type) steel fittings should be used when ever possible. 500 PSI burst hose is mandatory on AC however there is nothing wrong with stepping this up with a standard 3000 PSI hydraulic type hosing, the cost diffrence is little if anything at all. (provided your buying or installing with the right people).
R12 / R134 - Yes you can still buy R12 and yes you can convert R12 but the systems were never designed for it. Efficiency suffers GREATLY when you put 134 in a 12 system, in some climates its not so noticeable but in most where having a AC is a serious thought IT WILL BE. 134 is about 20% less efficient in heat transfer so the evaporator has to be larger, the condenser should be designed for it and the correct expansion valve and or orifice tube used. If not 95 degrees outside will get you 82 inside because the gas can not transfer the heat. Don't mistake what I am saying, I've done a lot of conversions and have had great results with them... You just have to work around the issues.
With all of the above buzzing in my head there seems to be a lot of negative but I try to be a realist when it comes to expecting the worst and getting the best out of a situation... I decided even though I am installing a 12V system for power accessories, radios, etc I wanted to keep it small and get the AC on the 24V side, the stock charging system with 60 amps of output does not have a lot using it.... You might as well make the best of it. No pod type AC systems!!! I want a standard looking under dash type install. A/C and heat both are a must for me. When going through all of this head ache and not installing defrost in the process and leaving your self wiping the windows with a rag is feeble minded in my humble opinion. (yes defrost is a very over looked and UNDER mentioned option in aftermarket installs)
The first few calls I made in regards to 24V stuff gave me a mild stroke!!! Im "in the biz" so to speak on heavy equipment and automotive parts but when you mention 24V to 12V guys their eyes get some weird $ sign glaze over them. Truthfully there shouldn't be more than a 20$ cost difference (if anything) but places that sell things are in the business of making money. I was hunting a compressor first, doing so just for pricing to see whom I was going to deal with... A great example was Napa (not the best place to buy AC parts) I have a commercial account and buy heaps from these guys daily... A 12V run of the mill new compressor is about 300$ (should be about 250$) add the words "with a 24V clutch" and its over 700$ list price... Heavy equipment parts and automotive AC places were the same... You HAVE TO go to a good AC shop that is use to handling both auto and heavy trucks to avoid the 24V $ look!!! Hunting down a 24V compressor is a great way of "feeling out" suppliers for both their pricing and experience with AC in general... If they act as if 24V is something odd and unusual with a weird price you know your talking to the wrong people... If they don't see 24V compressor as a big deal and their in the 250$ range, ask about a 24V blower / condenser set up and see if seems like a biggie (swapping a 12V for 24V electronics is NOT a big event)... If a big mysterious event to them your proably getting warm on finding a parts supply...
Before I get to far ahead of myself.... The following is what I looked into and what I did or didn't find regarding some of the ideas mentioned in the thread above....
Vintage Air... Some of the best AUTOMOTIVE kits around... Hands down they are second to none in development and research for their products. People my knock them but they offer more than anyone can part or piece from any number of catalogs. The down side is they get top dollar for their products, they are 12V systems, their "dealers" are well... Shaky at best, I found everything from DOA businesses to home and commercial businesses whom do nada for auto work selling systems. If you have a LOCAL dealer and are comfortable with them you would proably feel different but everyone I contacted in and out of state was big on selling a kit for a "car" but very small on knowledge, support, etc for custom installs, and VERY slow on getting returned calls... The product is great but if you are going the DIY route and know a little but not everything about A/C work you could find yourself in a lot of trouble with a MV.... With a 67 Camaro it would be quite different!!! Still.... hardware wise these guys have it all but you are on your own for figuring out what parts and pieces to order... A spec'ed out kit for a Deuce without condenser, fan and installation in 12V was 975$ ... OUCH!!
Thermo King...
I searched high and low for this allusive beast for about a week... After about 25 phone calls to different dealers in Florida and then in Texas and eventually the factory in several departments and offices I gave up. I was told many times that TK manufactured various military applicable products since the 1950's but none were valuable and none were known of which would fit a truck/tractor application.... With the exception of a rear cab mounted unit as found on semi trailers and one console type (pod) unit which could possibly fit between bucket seats... The last person I spoke with was a Nam Vet whom had been employed by TK since 1975, he was a motor pooler and knew exactly what a M35 was,knew his stuff, was extremely helpful and so on.... Very much reassured me (kindly) that I was beating a very dead horse!!!
Unless someone can produce a PRODUCT NUMBER, PN or something from TK Im gonna call this one a myth?? I was really hoping that this would not be the case as a 24V drop in kit of sorts would be a dream!!! I have a feeling someone saw a installed system at a TK dealer using some TK parts that was a "custom jobber"...
HUMMV Kits... These are available on the market, I think Saturn was even advertising them on their site not to long ago... Its a sound idea but I did not like the old reviews of the first civilian Hummer's AC performance. I think it would be a easy upgrade to a actual HUMMV with a few mods and tweaking to bring the system up to better functioning but there is still the 12V factor and the kits are only partial so your still left hunting parts and pieces, making hoses, buying a compressor, etc. It leaves a lot to the imagination and a lot to the unknown when it comes to final performance. I felt like I could have made it work with out much issue but the lingering 12V factor really affected my final decision later in buying.
Window / side cab mount units ... I couldn't stomach hanging something like that off of her!
Roof mounts... There are a lot of varieties of these out there in 24 volt... Some use a engine driven compressor and some you just bolt on, wire and "poof" instant AC... Not a bad deal if you have a box on the back! Personally I see some hang ups... A hard top would never support the 200+ pounds that some of these weigh with out some serious reinforcement being done. Even then I would venture to say off road activity would be a issue with weight, bouncing and sagging. Also height for me personally would be an issue, I could see my brandy new AC unit being knocked flat off by a tree branch on a weekend of rowdy redneck Deuce abuse!
After making a lot of calls and chancing a lot of leads (see below) I ended up going with a company called Polar Bear Inc
www.polarbearinc.com the guy I dealt with was named Joe, nice guy, knows his stuff, was more than willing to listen, ask questions, ANSWER QUESTIONS, lay out options and investigate minor details. (zero solicitation here) I laid out the details of what I wanted and why and he simply understood and was willing to do the home work to help find the right product. In the end I opted for an after market kit (PN 00204-HC) of sorts with a few custom add on's. It has what I wanted in one package with AC, heat, defrost, under dash mounting with in dash or under dash cable controls, it also comes with vents, ducting and so on. The air box manufacture was willing to custom build the unit for 24V Joe is adding in the switching, dryer, 2 groove 24V compressor, and misc parts and pieces for 725$. 475 for the box, 225$ for the compressor (new), and a few $ in misc parts and pieces... I am still doing the install myself supplying the condenser with fan and doing my own hosing.
As I said before... this is a lot of info but I thought I would share the hours of reading and phone calls for those looking at buying a system for their Deuce... My parts are in a pile and I will be posting pics and so on of my install as Im building under the thread below so keep checking and eventually it will all get posted!!!
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4997
