Adding a winch

[HanksDeuce]

[In the spirit of old monster truck commercials]

Coming in October 2015
Prepare to get annihilated!
As Differential Engineering Inc. and the Steel Soldiers Forum proudly present...
Mega Military Truck Winch Off at the Durhamtown Plantation featuring all of your favorite military trucks and their owners steve6x6x6, Floridianson, swbradley1 and gimpyrobb to name a few...
And don't miss the 2nd Annual Barbeque Twinkie Cookoff! Tickets are just 10 bucks for the whole seat BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE.
The first 100 people into the gates get a free can of Natural Light.
Tickets available at Ticketmaster or Sonny's Bar-b-q locations in Georgia.
SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY OCTOBER 2015 BE THERE OR BE QUEER!

 

[cattlerepairman]

I have plenty of experience with hydraulic winches and some with electric ones. My own PTO winch on my truck still makes me anxious whenever I operate it. Spooling cable is easy - operating the PTO winch safely is not.

The beefy PTO winch looks great on the truck and it belongs there. If I had a choice, I would go electric or hydraulic in a heartbeat. Both the Canadian M35 (MLVW) and the M35A3 went hydraulic for a reason.
The shear pin, while an absolute necessity on the PTO winch, is a major PITA in hard winching situations where you are buried, misjudge or a sudden jolt causes it to break. Have fun diving into the mud to your eyeballs putting a new one in. "Should have used a snatch block" is correct, but too late a thought at that time.

What I probably hate most about the PTO winch is that you can end up in a situation with full load on the winch, a broken shear pin and no way to safely relax the cable (other than maybe crawling underneath with a pipe wrench, if one calls that safe, being in line with the tensioned cable)

Yes, heat (duty cycle) of the electric winch is a consideration. However, it means it will still winch you out - just more slowly, perhaps.

An electrical setup with tough roller fairleads covering all directions, allowing awkward pull angles while still spooling the layers straight, is, IMHO, a vastly superior setup over stock.

As for winching power, recovery formulas say that you need to be able to pull

vehicle weight (stuck up to wheel hubs)
2x vehicle weight (stuck up to fenders/top of wheels)

These formulas are for "dead" vehicles that do not assist with their own power.

My M35A2C w/w weighs just under 7 metric tons (14000 lbs), so an 18000 lbs WARN would "just" do, in direct pull, on the first layer of cable, for most uncomplicated situations.

Of course, the best location for the winch is towards the rear of the truck between the frame rails, with the cable able to be fed through fairleads in the front and the rear, to be able to pull front or back, as needed (FMTV)........

 

[Floridianson]

I think it sounds like more fun than getting fender deep in mud and 5 days to get the truck clean.
I am defending the statement that we are Dinosaur's.
Now I think to make this fair you can not limit the amount of compounding the Deuce winch is allowed. There should be more than just one heavy pull event.
The electric should be limited to two battries. There should be a long reach pull a short reach pull and a timed event. There can be no adding of cable to Electric to extend reach. Things like that would make a better show of what they can or maybe can not realy do in the Zombie attack. Wonder if Warn would help sponser as we would need a realy big crane for the dead lift time event. There is more to add but this is just off my head and it's morning and Blonds don't think well in the morning.
I think ability should be entered too. Like the Deuce winch can carrie more line so should not one of the events be can you reach out to 200 feet and drag a one ton block and retreave?
We would need cement blocks starting a one ton rangeing to 10 tons and yes the electric can compound.

If this could happen it's not me verses Steve is pros and cons of electric verses PTO.

 

[steve6x6x6]

I am glad you are willing and i am curious. The best way is out in the forest and find 2 good oaks trees about 100' apart. Tail hook to one tree and rig to the other with a 20,000 lbs. hoist scale in line. You will be able to see when the pin shears or mine the interuter shuts the winch off. We have that feb. meet at holder mine.

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,...


I sure hope somebody takes steady video of this event as I would love to see this.

I have a Warn electric winch on my 4x4 and I know it works great.
I have recovered enough toy-motors in my time.

Another thing I think needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that an electric winch can suck the guts out of your battery/s but a PTO will just keep on truck'n,....

Also an electric winch was never designed for long sustained pulling under heavy load, they are meant for shorter pulling cycles in stages as apposed to the PTO's advantage.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts,....


Aussie.

 

[rustystud]

Well if you guys are really going to do this then you need a M35A3 with a hydraulic winch there also. As I stated before, I believe the hydraulic winch is the best of all worlds. No shear pins to break, no time limits due to heat build-up or battery drain in long hard pulls, and still be operated by one person. Of course to be fair the electric winch will still operate with the engine off (for a short time) , as a hydraulic and PTO will not.

 

[jake1086]

But dont forget, if you have a dead truck the electric will work a little just on batteries. The PTO.... well your truck is dead

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,....

But dont forget, if you have a dead truck the electric will work a little just on batteries. The PTO.... well your truck is dead

Then its time to break out the hand winch, or you can use a High lift Jack as a hand winch,....
Either way its time to burn some calories!




Aussie.

 

[rustystud]

But dont forget, if you have a dead truck the electric will work a little just on batteries. The PTO.... well your truck is dead

That is what I said when I stated "Of course to be fair the electric winch will still operate with the engine off"

 

[JasonS]

How about using a torque limiter instead of the shear pin: http://www.zero-max.com/overload-safety-devices-with-torque-limiters-c-25-l-en.html

We had similar devices on farm equipment to prevent damage when things jammed up.

 

[nk14zp]

How about using a torque limiter instead of the shear pin: http://www.zero-max.com/overload-safety-devices-with-torque-limiters-c-25-l-en.html

We had similar devices on farm equipment to prevent damage when things jammed up.

Or a clutch set up like on a bush hog?

 

[Floridianson]

Yea that shear pin will go fast if you guessed wrong. That would be one thing in favor of the PTO maybe as it can carrie alittle over 200 foot of line and doubled it could still reach out 100 feet. The Waren says 75 feet of line and pull 18000 some odd pounds so that would be a plus for it. Double it out and I would guess we would still have close to a 35 foot reach and close to 36000 pull. Not bad as long as there is a anchor point that close or we carrie extra line/chain. I am figureing that we were not ready and carrieing extra gear. Just winch to winch. Con on the PTO very heavy and needs motor running like said. Waren much lighter and as long as there is power then a plus.
My M925 has a winch and yes the controls do make it nice for easey ingagement and pay out or in with no clutching or trying to find the right spot for the PTO leaver. I know nobody wants to hear that I use my winch by myself but with the straight PTO gear winch I can atleast get the cable slack out alone and I can't with the Hyd. So for most a plus for the Warn and it's remote. Not looking good for the PTO winch but wait. What if we have no extra gear and need to raise or lower something light down a nasty hill 200 feet the the PTO with 200 feet of line might come in handy. So I want a plus for extra line carried on spool. I am just looking at this from outside the box of just a straight weight pull as sometimes we do more or something else than pull ourselfs out of a bad place.
Just close but if I could carrie a good amount over 200 feet of line I should be able to still reach 50 feet out and be compounded 4 times and be right in the pull zone with 4 wraps left on the drum.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Murphy's Law of self recovery winches, by cattlerepairman:

1) Any winch cable is at least three feet too short to reach the right anchor point
Corollary to 1) If the winch cable is of sufficient length, the pull angle is out of spec

2) If the winch is equipped with a shear pin, it will break at the most inconvenient moment
Corollary to 2) If you happen to have a spare shear pin, it will be a fraction too thick to fit. If it fits, it will break on the next pull.

3) "6x6" only means that you will get stuck further away from the solid road and need to walk a narrow/muddy food path to go get help. "W/W" only means the total absence of either road or foot path at the location where you just got stuck.

4) Any winch is too weak for the single-line pull you need right now to get unstuck.

5) Having a snatch block merely means that 1) is now six feet too short.


Feel free to add to this!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Lots of great points made here. As some know, I'm (trying) to put together a CUCV based wrecker. Not wanting to keep all my eggs in one basket, it will have a hydraulic (or two) on the back and electric on the front. Nothing against a PTO winch, it's just lots of fab to add one to a CUCV. Snatch blocks! I have one 6 ton Ernest Holmes block I've had for decades. I'm stunned at what a Holmes 6 ton is priced at on EBay. $300 ea.
In the words of "Fire Marshall Bill". Winches can be a lot of fun, but they can be de, de, de, deadly!

 

[RAYZER]

One issue present when forced to use a PTO winch solo is knowing when to stop your cable or knowing what's going on on the winch reel.
Here's something I came up with so to be able to keep an eye on the before said.

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,...



SO you know when to stop reeling IN your cable just tie a strip of red rag 1ft from the end of your cable so when it lines up with the edge of your bonnet when you are sitting in the drivers seat you will know the safe point to stop reeling in your cable.


Conversely you can do the same at the other end of your cable so you know when to stop reeling OUT your cable.

Just a thought.




Aussie.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

You guys are comparing oranges against apples against pears. All three have pros and cons. Personally I don't think the 200 feet of cable goes as a pro for the pto winch since you can carry straps or chain or cable to extend the electric or hydraulic. The non stop pulling is a pro. All the extra weight...... price..... sheer pin...... All cons. I'm going electric. You can do a front and rear warn winches cheaper then most people want for a pto winch setup.......

 

[Recovry4x4]

200' of cable all in one piece can come in mighty handy if you have to run a 4 part line or more.

 

[steve6x6x6]

You guys are comparing oranges against apples against pears. All three have pros and cons. Personally I don't think the 200 feet of cable goes as a pro for the pto winch since you can carry straps or chain or cable to extend the electric or hydraulic. The non stop pulling is a pro. All the extra weight...... price..... sheer pin...... All cons. I'm going electric. You can do a front and rear warn winches cheaper then most people want for a pto winch setup.......

Give that man another cigar. I carry many types of 40,000 lbs. straps and a 65,000 lbs. 60' rope with 1/2" x 150' of cable on the winch. I have a snatch block and all types of rigging.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Steve where did you get the 1/2" cable?

I'm going with a smittybilt 17500 winch. They sell new for around $650 to $700 with a 3 yr electrical 5 yr mechanical warranty.