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Adding Primary mover PF-520 Hoist ( DUMP ) to my M35a2.

Mrgior31513

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The distance to place from the pins would entirely depend on how high you want to lift the bed. The lift of the bed would be minimal based on the actual specifications of the item that you want. The lift could be calculated from the overall height of the lift with the placement of the part combined with the placement of the rear pins. The image of the device on Amazon shows it gives a specific degree lift with the given tonnage promised.

If you want a lift bed that is more like a dump truck I would highly recommend simply designing one based on how other people do it on an industrial scale rather than going with this.

I make parts for the transportation industry, I've made thousands of parts for dump trucks, I would use this on a small trailer but not for anything that would actually see anything close to what it advertises.
 

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Mrgior31513

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Here is a simple rise over run calculator that operates on inches. With this you can calculate the specific distance you need your part to be from the rear pins.
 

birddog1106

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southport,nc
The distance to place from the pins would entirely depend on how high you want to lift the bed. The lift of the bed would be minimal based on the actual specifications of the item that you want. The lift could be calculated from the overall height of the lift with the placement of the part combined with the placement of the rear pins. The image of the device on Amazon shows it gives a specific degree lift with the given tonnage promised.

If you want a lift bed that is more like a dump truck I would highly recommend simply designing one based on how other people do it on an industrial scale rather than going with this.

I make parts for the transportation industry, I've made thousands of parts for dump trucks, I would use this on a small trailer but not for anything that would actually see anything close to what it advertises.
You don`t think it would dump 10,000 on a 12 x8 bed ??
 

Mrgior31513

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You don`t think it would dump 10,000 on a 12 x8 bed ??
Dump beds are typically built with the ram in the back for added stability. That device could very well be capable of lifting the weight that it says, but to get it to any moderate height it looks as if it would have to go very close to the pivot point. If I was going to build on for that much weight, which is a considerable amount of weight, I would design it like an actual dump bed.

If you pivot that 12ft bed 12" from the end and mount that ram to achieve a rise of 8ft on the rear of the bed: with 11ft to the pivot point, you've only raised it to 36 degrees. If you want a 45 degree lift you have to go to 11ft.

When they design dump beds for dump trucks they usually build an enclosure at the back of the bed, and that is where the ram sits. This is for stability. Think of those mounting points as you would a tripod, if all three points are very close to each other, and you have a ton of weight leveraged off of the end of it, it will be far more unstable and dangerous. They don't make dump trucks with lifts like that because it is inherently unsafe.
 

Mrgior31513

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The kit these guys sell looks to be the same/similar and they have it mounted on the cross member that is between the axles. They seem to feel pretty confident in putting it on trucks, but I still don't much care for the design.
 

Mrgior31513

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Here is a manufacturers manual on the item.

If you go through, it does lower the recommended capacity for use depending on where the lift is mounted, as well as giving pretty good information on the mounting instructions. In conjunction with the calculator I gave you earlier, you can get your desired angle and now have a rough basis for factoring the weight you should be using in it.

 

Mrgior31513

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Looking through more specific directions, it is recommended to mount at a distance of 97" for 45 degrees, and with a 12" overhang it would have a capacity of 10.3 tons. For 50 degrees it's at 88", with 12" overhang it would be 9.3 tons. It is bigger lift than it appeared and does recommend significantly less lift than shown on C & C's site.

With no overhang it would change the weight capacity, making it less, as the load effectively grows by a foot on the back end without the foot pivot, and if it follows the same 'loss' as a foot the other way increases it, it would result in about 2.3 tonnage of loss in capacity.
 

birddog1106

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southport,nc
Dump beds are typically built with the ram in the back for added stability. That device could very well be capable of lifting the weight that it says, but to get it to any moderate height it looks as if it would have to go very close to the pivot point. If I was going to build on for that much weight, which is a considerable amount of weight, I would design it like an actual dump bed.

If you pivot that 12ft bed 12" from the end and mount that ram to achieve a rise of 8ft on the rear of the bed: with 11ft to the pivot point, you've only raised it to 36 degrees. If you want a 45 degree lift you have to go to 11ft.

When they design dump beds for dump trucks they usually build an enclosure at the back of the bed, and that is where the ram sits. This is for stability. Think of those mounting points as you would a tripod, if all three points are very close to each other, and you have a ton of weight leveraged off of the end of it, it will be far more unstable and dangerous. They don't make dump trucks with lifts like that because it is inherently unsafe.
Thanks for your reply.I will let you know how it works out---- I`m not doing the install.............VG
 

Mrgior31513

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You do realize this is a dump not lifting the bed ??...................VG
If it's a dump bed it has to lift one side of the bed. I am familiar with them, having made parts for dump trucks for about a decade. I was merely questioning the safety of such a device used in this heavy duty application, as it seems more unstable than traditional dump bed designs which mount the ram in the back. This design is more like what you see on chipper bodies and light to medium duty trailers. I have been told I tend to over engineer and over build things, so take that as you may.
 

birddog1106

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southport,nc
If it's a dump bed it has to lift one side of the bed. I am familiar with them, having made parts for dump trucks for about a decade. I was merely questioning the safety of such a device used in this heavy duty application, as it seems more unstable than traditional dump bed designs which mount the ram in the back. This design is more like what you see on chipper bodies and light to medium duty trailers. I have been told I tend to over engineer and over build things, so take that as you may.
GREAT...........i`LL KEEP YOU N DA lOOP.................tu.....................vg
 

Jbulach

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Let me drop this here.

The PH520 would have approximately 1/2 the power of my hoist with twin 5x20 cylinders, but I’m only running 2500psi and your bed is 2’ shorter. My overhang from pivot to the rear is 10”, not including the tailgate. Pivot to the lift point on the hoist is 92.5”. The hoist opens to around 70”, and gives me a dump angle of around 42 degrees. This is plenty of angle for stone, sand and gravel, but leaves me wanting more for wet clay and soil. I think the idea that a scissor hoist is more unstable than a tower and telescoping cylinder is a myth. You want to be fairly level when dumping either.
 

Mrgior31513

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Fontana, Ca

I think the idea that a scissor hoist is more unstable than a tower and telescoping cylinder is a myth. You want to be fairly level when dumping either.
In general between scissor and cylinder you might be right. I have spent the last day reading a large amount of things that agree with both of us, except in the area of actual weight capacity and weight distribution on the bed itself being significantly better with cylinder (but that's a metric of capacity and durability versus stability).

That being said, I would love to see this kit next to yours though :ROFLMAO:

I would guess that yours was designed so incredibly heavy to specifically combat the general instability that is inherent in the weight distribution of that kind of lift, especially with shifting or partially stuck loads. It's not that I'm not right, it's that it can be mitigated. Now go look at that PF-520.
 
Last edited:

tommys2patrick

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are you taking into account that the dump bed on the m35a2 variant is significantly heavier and structurally much more significantly reinforced. it is one of the reasons that the sides of the dump bed are so short. it helps to restrict how much weight you can put in the bed and ultimately on the drivetrain, frame and suspension. that encourages "private jones" to not put five tons into a two and a half ton truck. not that it hasn't been done but the risks of something bad happening go up.
 

birddog1106

New member
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Location
southport,nc
are you taking into account that the dump bed on the m35a2 variant is significantly heavier and structurally much more significantly reinforced. it is one of the reasons that the sides of the dump bed are so short. it helps to restrict how much weight you can put in the bed and ultimately on the drivetrain, frame and suspension. that encourages "private jones" to not put five tons into a two and a half ton truck. not that it hasn't been done but the risks of something bad happening go up.
are you taking into account that the dump bed on the m35a2 variant is significantly heavier and structurally much more significantly reinforced. it is one of the reasons that the sides of the dump bed are so short. it helps to restrict how much weight you can put in the bed and ultimately on the drivetrain, frame and suspension. that encourages "private jones" to not put five tons into a two and a half ton truck. not that it hasn't been done but the risks of something bad happening go up.
Yes,I agree not much strength in the sides also where can I find a wheel for a m35a3 ??.............TU
 

Mrgior31513

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Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Fontana, Ca
Yes,I agree not much strength in the sides also where can I find a wheel for a m35a3 ??.............TU
If you have sufficient privileges you can try posting in the Parts Wanted in Steel Soldiers Classifieds section
Depending on freight costs, might be worth it to check:
Boyce Equipment seems to have some in stock, in Utah.
Eastern Surplus is in Pa.
Big Mikes Motor Pool, he's in Southern New Jersey, doesn't show in stock so have to ask.
Few others, but their prices tend to go up a lot.
If you're not in a hurry, you can check out govplanet, might be able to get some good bids on some eventually in your neck of the woods, or with freight.
 

birddog1106

New member
24
11
3
Location
southport,nc
If you have sufficient privileges you can try posting in the Parts Wanted in Steel Soldiers Classifieds section
Depending on freight costs, might be worth it to check:
Boyce Equipment seems to have some in stock, in Utah.
Eastern Surplus is in Pa.
Big Mikes Motor Pool, he's in Southern New Jersey, doesn't show in stock so have to ask.
Few others, but their prices tend to go up a lot.
If you're not in a hurry, you can check out govplanet, might be able to get some good bids on some eventually in your neck of the woods, or with freight.
I called Eastern would u believe they want $ 975.00 CRAZY I don`t use them much I know white owl/Jim Henry have them. I ordered ,my O rings from George at White Owl .I just ordered Six 15.5-80-20`s and just wanted a Spare. Getting ready for HURRICANE SEASON !!.......TU........................VG
 
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