Advice needed! Loss of power / torque M1083

[BRob18E]

Hello, and thank you in advance for the help.
I recently replaced the bracket that holds the power steering pump and the air compressor together. I also noticed that the Oil Governor Tube was cracked so I replaced that as well. For the backstory; about 6 months ago I was driving down to KY from OH and about 30 miles out, my power steering started to go out. I was lucky and had a Tractor Supply at the next exit. As I was Tractor Supply, I noticed the bolts holding the power steering pump to the bracket had came loose, and one bolt was missing. As I tried tightening the bolts back up, the bracket broke. In hindsight, after replacing the bracket, I now know that I didn't have the spline lined up and as I tightened the bolt, that is why the bracket broke. So I decided that I can make it another 30 minutes down the road. After about 10 minutes, my wife, who was driving behind me said the truck looks like it is smoking. I pulled over and it looked to be leaking oil from the broken bracket. It didn't look that back, so I continued. Another 10 minutes and I was pulled over on the side of the road and oil was dripping out massively. I called a tow truck and got the truck to my property. Ouch!!!

I recently decided that I need to fix the truck (many other projects took priority) and I had a fellow forum member send me the bracket. Once I replaced the bracket, I started the engine and my wife said there was still leaking oil. I got out and looked at the leak. It was the Oil Governor Tube and it was dripping out of a crack at the weld point. So i replaced the tube with a hose that I had made at the hydraulic shop. I started the engine again, and it fired up and everything was good. I then drove the truck back to my campsite and the truck is lacking power. I thought it was the turbo, and had someone send me their old turbo. As the turbo was being mailed, my cousin told me how to test my turbo. The turbo tested good and I didn't end up replacing the turbo.

So. . . . I am at a lose. Even when the truck is in neutral and I rev up the engine (sitting on the tire), something doesn't sound right. I read a forum on this site that talked about the Oil Governor Tube can kill the engine, but the engine worked fine when I had the power steering problem. So. . . . .

Another thing that may help troubleshoot the problem. I have no idea how the truck could dump 4 GALLONS of oil in 60 seconds. . . . . once the tow truck got the MTV to the end of the road, no sh!t, the road ends where the truck was dropped off, I had to choice but to move it off the road. So I purchased oil and topped off the oil, started it up, put it in drive, and drove 300 meters. At that point, the truck lost oil pressure/power and I shut it down. I am mentioning this because I want to give anyone that can help me troubleshoot this as much information as possible. If you are that person, I want to say thank you thank you thank you. I'm lost at this point. I'm to the point of paying anyone that can come to Monticello Ky to help fix this.

This is what I know:

It's not the Turbo (at least my turbo is....as my cousin puts it...blowing like a leaf blower on steroids. and spins freely)
It's not the Oil Governor Tube as it has been replaced with the OEM tube, although it may have caused the problem. I feel unlikely, but what I know about this engine is nil.
Its not the fluid levels. I drained a gallon of oil because the oil was on the top of the checkered mark on the dipstick and I wanted to eliminate that as the problem.
It starts right up.
It sounds good when at idle.
It will move the vehicle and drive ok as long and I don't need power. (it's parked at the campsite, I'm not out using it)
It sounds . . . "weird" . . . when I idle it up. . .

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated..

Respectfully,

Brian

 

[Ronmar]

Too much running without oil will kill the engine, but the kind of damage that would cause HP loss would also leade to a lot of blowby out the cc vent and a lot of smoke in the exhaust, so hopefully that did not happen to you, and it is something else.

Fuel = power, are you maybe sucking air somewhere? You were working right in/under the fuel system. A loose fitting or cracked hose will admit air and keep you from building power/firing regular. One quick check, if the truck has been setting a little bit pump the primer bulb. If it stays soft/spongy for more than 2-3 pushes you are leaking air or the flapper check on the underside of the pump isn’t sealing(see second video).

Another check is to measure baseline fuel pressure. Between the back of the governor and the front of the second fuel filter is a T fitting where you can connect a pressure gauge. 10 psi cranking, 20 psi at idle up to 60 psi at rpm. Should be steady. If it sags occasionally, thats an air biscuit passing thru the lift pump. Another way to look for air is to disconnect the return line at the tank, connect a clear line and run it into the tank filler port, then look for bubbles. Should be next to none visible…

Here are some videos I did for the fuel system that shows some examples of testing the pressure and the primer function And test…

good luck…

 

[BRob18E]

Ronmar, thank you for the advice. I will get on that today. Also, do you have any other thoughts on what it may be? The reason I ask is because I can throttle the engine up no problem. I hear a very clear whinning/something noise coming from the engine as the throttle increases. I am not getting any smoke or bad blow by on the truck. The whining increases with the throttle increase. I could be wrong, and I will go try some of the things you mentioned, but I believe the engine is getting the fuel it needs. I just changed all filters on my Case 9060B and my Drash trailer, so why not get everything changed on this as well.
I appreciate the help, but can you think of anything else that would cause this issue if it ends up not being a fuel issue? In the thread that I read earlier, it said if the Governor Oil Feed Tube is not connected, it can kill the engine. I believe it mentioned Camshaft Bearings. Does that sound like something that would show itself as I rev up the engine?

 

[Guruman]

<snip> Also, do you have any other thoughts on what it may be? The reason I ask is because I can throttle the engine up no problem. I hear a very clear whinning/something noise coming from the engine as the throttle increases. I am not getting any smoke or bad blow by on the truck. The whining increases with the throttle increase. <snip>

That sounds like maybe a boost leak. Check all of the charge air pipe connectors for loose clamps and splits in the boots.

 

[wheelspinner]

That sounds like maybe a boost leak. Check all of the charge air pipe connectors for loose clamps and splits in the boots.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

 

[coachgeo]

change your oil filter asap (wont change sluggish engine but it may need it after running low on oil creating excessive wear) While doing that grab an oil sample to send sample off for testing. Yourself; cut filter open and inspect the metal flake content. maybe post pics in here?

replace oil and filter at earlier interval than normal in not to distant future.

Hope it is just turbo leak

 

[Ronmar]

If it wiped camshaft bearings and that was effecting power production, it would probably effect it at idle as well. It doesn’t sound like you have much time running this engine, serious bearing issues would show in the oil pressure response, especially when it warms up. Basically the oil pressure will fall off severely when it fully warms the oil, even to the point of the 15PSI warning light coming on…

Fuel flow to idle/lightly rev an unloaded engine is significantly different than that required to perform any actual work with the engine.

The symptom you described sounds like classic air leak on the lift side of the fuel system, so that is why I went that way.

You may already know this, but in case you dont, here is some basic cat Mechanical Unit Injector theory. The injectors are both injector pump and fuel control all in one. When stroked up, they fill with fuel from the main gallery, when the cam/rocker compresses it, they concentrate that cam force and fire fuel into the engine at upwards of 33,000 PSI. each injector has it’s own fuel control rack, all these are tied to a main rack controlled by the governor.

Because of the design, baseline fuel pressure is an absolute necessity as the injectors have a limited ammount of time to fill with fuel thru a small port, and that time decreases with RPM increase. If there is reduced pressure and air pockets flowing thru the gallery, the injectors will be unable to deliver required fuel under load and at increased RPM. This will also damage the injectors over time…

The whine could be an air leak, check all the hose clamps, You can disconnect the waste gate actuator hose on the turbo compressor housing and apply compressed air to the hose and actuator with a regulator, increasing pressure slowly untill the waste gate actuator rod opens the waste gate and see if it makes any noise(Should be quiet as it operates).

A mechanics stethoscope is the way to look for possible mechanical sources around a noisy engine. Place the probe around the engine to try and isolate it to a specific location, like the mount bases for the idler pullys, the alternator housing or water pump housing. Mind the moving belts and fan…

If it has set for a while the alternator could be making noise as it is under high load charging the oversized battery bank…

 

[Ronmar]

Here is another video for you…

 

[BRob18E]

Thank you for the link to your video. Wow, it looks like you have a nice setup. I read a few comments and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love for you to put a list together of all the mods you have done and where to get them....I am going to watch as many of your videos as I can tomorrow. From the look of it, you know the engine well.. I didn't know about the fuel pressure so thank you for the education. I am pretty good at fixing stuff/replacing parts when my stuff breaks, but I am by no means a mechanic that actually knows what he is doing. I bought an excavator that had an engine fire, went to a parts catalog, looked up the parts, and put everything back together and hope it works. I rebuild a 175HP boat engine, new pistons, the hole 9 yards, but if I got it all put back together and it didn't work, then I would be . . .well. . . . Like I am now. . lol. So I greatly appreciate the assistance. As far as the boost leak, I would have thought I would have noticed that as I was looking the engine over while testing the turbo. However.....since that seems to be the consensus, I will check every connection and boot tomorrow. I plan on getting all new filters installed tomorrow as well. I have the filters, along with transmission filters as well. As far as changing the oil, I just added in new oil a few days ago when I changed out the bracket.

Questions and thoughts I have.
Is there anything in the air compressor/power steering pump that would cause this? Yes it is pumping up the air tanks, however I wouldn't think all the trucks oil would have came out of the bracket between the power steering pump and the air compressor. What is the oil routed through the compressor/bracket doing?

My wife and I was both standing on the drivers side with the cab raised and I was on the tire reeving the engine. We both think the weird sound is coming from where the engine and transmission meet. I guess the fuel system is right in front of my face as well,. . . hmmm. I checked the hydraulic pump and it comes on and goes off as it should. . .

Well damn......I'll change the filters, check every hose and clamp on the thing and check back in.

I want to thank everyone for their advice.

Build a better world!

 

[coachgeo]

engine trans area hmmmm... folk have found loose flywheel mount bolts. There is an inspection hole or something down there a few have used to tighten them.... others found a mess and had to remove trans (easy said... hard do). again hope it is fuel and or turbo pipe.


Wait....at back of engine... hmmm...on second thought if sucking air at hand primer pump (common air leak area) maybe that could be it; it is more rearward ??????? Lets hope

 

[BRob18E]

I need someone that knows what they are doing at this point. Does anyone want to take the job? The fuel filters have been changed. The oil filter has been changed. There isn't any leaking air from a busted hose or loose clamp. Is there anyone that could possible come take a look at it? Maybe bring some tools that I don't have?
Any other ideas that I can check? HELP!!!

 

[BRob18E]

The truck in sitting on a beautiful lakefront lot overlooking Lake Cumberland in Monticello Ky. It would an excellent place for a few beers in the evening. Good company, I can do the work, you just guide me. I have a queen size bed and all meals, snacks, beer on the house. I'm spent!

 

[Guruman]

the only other thought I had was a plugged fuel tank vent, causing a vacuum to form in the tank restricting fuel flow, but that does not really account for the whistling noises and such.

It'd be easy to check though, just leave the fuel cap loose or off and give it another try.

 

[RRaulston]

so.... how did this story end??