Airbrake hand controller 'Trolley valve' install assistance needed.

zebedee · Apr 4, 2013

I'm installing an 'Air Brake Hand Control Lever' to my 816 and need assistance from 'tractor' owners on plumbing and connection. M818/819... 900 series or CCC owners.

TM's (800 series) do not show schematic of lines or hookup of this hand valve. (Guess who I PM'd just to make sure!) All there is, is the basic schematic in the -10 TM and install of new valve on steering column in the -20 TM, but it does not detail installing new lines, their routing or connections down below.

I potentially have a 900 series valve as it has three hose hookups where as the 800's TM only refers to removing two hose adapters....

Before anyone questions my motive, I am following an accepted military modification ** (undocumented at this point in my searching) for this specific vehicle. It was intended for heavy towing and control of 'load'. I am doing this as a correct restoration NOT necessarily for future use - yes, I could just put the lever on the column and hide the hoses under the dash, but that is just wrong!

Thanks. PM if you want - I will combine and detail/document all info as I proceed so this can become a source of future reference untill I can find original maintenance bulletin - if it exists.

doghead · Apr 4, 2013

FWIW, The M819 has this and I use it when towing another truck, or tag trailer. It is very nice to have.

zebedee · Apr 4, 2013

Yup - I was thinking this would be a great mod for the same reason beyond my "correct" resto need...

This is what I have / need help with. Thanks.

NB. This is specifically not in the "hot rodding" thread (see post #1 - ** ).

Ferroequinologist · Apr 4, 2013

If no one else pipes up, I'll go look on my 818 (or I guess I should say Stampy's 818. If I remember correctly, one line goes to the air system for full pressure, and the other line goes down and T-s in to the piping going back to the trailer air lines, after a check valve to keep it from feeding back to the trucks airpack. I'm not 100% on the check valve, but I know it feeds air back far enought to activate the brake light switch.

doghead · Apr 4, 2013

Here's the page from the -20P.

73m819 · Apr 4, 2013

Check the 211 series TMs (older 5t before the 809s) the m62 wrecker had this as OE.

TurboMustang370 · Apr 4, 2013

If you need/want any digital photos of my M932a2 setup, I'd be more than happy to send them to you. Just let me know what you would like and I'll normally be able to get them to you within a day or two.

And if you're in the mood for a road trip, I'm in central NJ if you want to come look at it in person.

zebedee · Apr 4, 2013

doghead said:
Here's the page from the -20P.

- 24 TM...? That is not a TM available on this site is it? Didn't see that pic. Do you have the page with the numbers detailed???

Thanks.

Ron - my next step was to go newer and check the 900's but going back is also a great idea - thanks.

Turbo - yes, that'd be great, what I'd need is ID'ing the three hoses at the lever and pics of where they each terminate below and possible an idea of routing for each. Will your truck be going to the Sussex event?

Ferro - as for Turbo - your(???) 818 is probably different to the 900's

Artisan · Apr 4, 2013

Try TM...24P-2 Pg 129

doghead · Apr 4, 2013

Whoops, sorry I made an error. TM 9-2320-260-20P

zebedee · Apr 4, 2013

TM number confusion

Artisan / Doghead
This is the TM index from S/S TM Forum ; No -24P so I have no idea what is on pge 120 yet Eric's first pic says - 24 at the top...

Eric - I'd gone through -20 and nothing other than the pic I first put up (excluding my ** addition).

So I am still confused - TM wise... I think I have a better understanding of the trailer brake system, but still don't appreciate the termination locations.....

... "THWACK"... (back to you) ...

zebedee · Apr 4, 2013

Air Schematic

Basic layout but still not specific enough. "809" TM - 20

zebedee · Apr 10, 2013

Trolley Valve - bench test

Finally managed to do a bench test on the 3 pipe trolley valve.

Ports open to air flow shown for both positions of handle.
It appears that this valve is supposed to be 'cut' into or inserted 'inline' to the pressure line and not 'Tee'd into the pressure line.
With the valve in the closed position, there is unrestricted flow 1 and 2,

"Closed" position
and there is urestricted flow 1 and 2 when handle closed through the central port.

"Open" position
- so I am assuming that when pressure is needed to the trailer, it is taken from the center port.
Pressure "3" results in a 'popping' inside then partial flow out of the others. When the pressure is released, the inside seals back up.
This setup means that the normal flow 1 or 2 in the 'closed' pic, would be interupted. Hmmmmm

Edit: Bench test incomplete/inconclusive as Service line spring brake holding pressure was not simulated - just atmosphere. See later posts and much appreciated assistance....

doghead · Apr 10, 2013

I would have guessed it is the same as a Bendix TC-2 lever.

http://www.bepco.biz/Catalogs/AirBrakeCat/73-75.pdf

doghead · Apr 10, 2013

4820-00-062-9719

4820

000629719

Valve, Rotary, Selector

45485

[h=2]4820-00-062-9719 Features[/h]

MRC	Parameter	Characteristics
AGAV	End Item Identification	2320-01-047-8754
FEAT	Special Features	Three ports;hand operated

[h=2]4820-00-062-9719 Manufacturing Part Numbers (SKUs)[/h]

MFG SKU	CAGE	STATUS	ISC	RNVC	RNCC	SADC	DAC	RNAAC
11602159	19207	A	2	9	D		1	AX
20QE351A-PA	06853	A	2	9	5		E	AX
2530000629719	SCY13	A	2	9	5		9	YP
2R0614	11083	A	2	9	5		6	AX
2R614	11083	A	2	9	5		1	AX
36Z658	27315	A	2	9	5		5	AX
561653	12603	R	2	9	5		2	AX
561653	40152	R	2	9	5		2	AX
561653	77237	A	2	2	5		5	ZZ
561653	77237	A	2	1	C	9F	5	ZZ
7010-02	06853	A	2	2	3		5	AX

[h=2]4820-00-062-9719 Manufacturer[/h]

MFG SKU	CAGE	Manufacturer	Type	Status
20QE351A-PA	06853	Bendix Commercial Vehicle Systems	A	A
7010-02	06853	Bendix Commercial Vehicle Systems	A	A
2R0614	11083	Caterpillar Inc.	A	A
2R614	11083	Caterpillar Inc.	A	A
561653	12603	Clark Equipment Co.	A	R
561653	77237	Dana Corp.	A	A
2530000629719	SCY13	E.C.A Etablissement Central DES	E	A
36Z658	27315	Morris Material Handling Inc.	A	A
11602159	19207	U S Army Tank Automotive Command	A	A
561653	40152	VME Americas Inc.	A

zebedee · Apr 11, 2013

Thanks DH - I followed a couple of those reference numbers through their manufacturers but did not find any info on "plumbing" other than the ports are labelled 'Delivery', 'Supply' and 'Exhaust'.
I don't understand the exhaust function, there is full flow of air through the valve in the closed position, so you would be loosing all air pressure to exhaust, almost like a direction valve not an on-off valve. If you capped the exhaust, then it would work the same as the earlier two port valve on the M818's.....

I guess I am missing some fundamental insight of the system/purpose - presumably it's relevant to 'full air' systems like the 900 trucks.... Would the 'exhaust' be the supply to the parking brake maybe? But wouldn't that conflict with the pre trip inspection process when testing brakes..... I feel a flow diagram coming on.

rosco · Apr 11, 2013

That valve appears to be the same valve used in Civi applications, and has been around forever. Supply is just that. Delivery goes to the Service line to the trailer for the application of the trailer only brakes. Your correct in that a check valve then needs to be upstream of the joint into the service line, so that it doesn't back feed the rest of your brake system. What I can't remember, is, if you need another check valve in the delivery line to the valve you are installing (BTW, in Civi language, that valve is called the "Squaw Valve"), or if the valve itself is adequate. So when the treddle valve is applied, it applies brakes all around - both truck/tractor, and trailer. Also, that valve is availiable in two models. One is that when the valve handle is pulled to apply brakes, it will stay put, in one place, till you manually reset the handle to zero. The 2nd type is a spring type handle, that when your hand is removed, it will return to zero, automatically (this type relieves the driver of having to remember to reset to zero - you will sooner or later forget the brakes are on, and smoke them! It also prevents the driver for using it for parking - which is a no,no).

For Referance: It might help to check out the Civi standard air brake systems. Your MVs are all basically based on that, but with the Military stuff added in too. Look for FMVSS 121. You will find the basic schematics that will help you understand how the systems work, in princible.

So: with the valve installed (pretend), you apply air to the towed vehicle, with the hand valve. That pressurizes the service line to the trailer. When your finished with the trailer only braking, you need to dump the air in the service line, hence the Exhaust Port. So just dump it overboard somewhere. There is probably another line, that is for that purpose. But just dumping it in the cab will be noisey and probably stinky.

Note: That looks like the same valve that I installed in one of my old M211's, back in the '70's, when I made a tractor out of it.

M35A2-AZ · Apr 11, 2013

I got one and I am going to install it on my M923A1 for towing. I use it all the time on my M931A1.
Great idea!!!

Artisan · Apr 11, 2013

zebedee · Apr 11, 2013

Rosco - been a while since I studied for my CDL so yes, I ought go back and study the finite details of the systems!

rosco said:
So: with the valve installed (pretend), you apply air to the towed vehicle, with the hand valve. That pressurizes the service line to the trailer. When your finished with the trailer only braking, you need to dump the air in the service line, hence the Exhaust Port. So just dump it overboard somewhere. There is probably another line, that is for that purpose. But just dumping it in the cab will be noisey and probably stinky.

Note: That looks like the same valve that I installed in one of my old M211's, back in the '70's, when I made a tractor out of it.

BUT.......

With the bench test, yes, there is delivery to what would be the trailer, however when you move the lever back to the off position, that pressure does not come back** BUT all the supply pressure is diverted to the Exhaust port.

One thing I am overlooking is that with my bench test - I did not deliver to a pressure tank, just atmosphere. So, in my test, pressure would stay in the Service line and therefore trailer brakes stay on.
**Perhaps a further bench test with a tank to simulate the Service line and the pressure against the trailer brake springs...
I did notice there was a sprung release of air to Supply and Exhaust ports when I 'Supplied' pressure to the Delivery port...

Out of curiosity, how does the valve on the two port (older M818 tractors) release the pressure in the Service line????

Artisan - yes, I tried to look at the 900's TM but my steam driven connection refused to comit to a lifestime of downloading!
Perhaps if someone who has a 900 and already downloaded the TM's can zoom me the appropriate page(s)...

Airbrake hand controller 'Trolley valve' install assistance needed.

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