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Annual Maintenance Costs of LMTV

Sailmike

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I’m looking into buying either an F350 or LMTV and converting it into an RV. A big part of my decision is the maintenance costs. I’m trying to figure out whether it’s feasible for me to put aside money each month as I travel towards the annual maintenance. How much does it cost to maintain an LMTV each year?

If I was to get all the necessary repairs and/or upgrades at Grigsby Trucks or other similar company and keep up all the recommended maintenance, how often should I expect something to break down?
 
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Mullaney

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I’m looking into buying either an F350 or LMTV and converting it into an RV. A big part of my decision is the maintenance costs. I’m trying to figure out whether it’s feasible for me to put aside money each month as I travel towards the annual maintenance. How much does it cost to maintain an LMTV each year?

If I was to get all the necessary repairs and/or upgrades at Grigsby Trucks or other similar company and keep up all the recommended maintenance, how often should I expect something to break down?
Opinions are like other parts of the anatomy, but if you want to play more than work on a truck - and be able to drop your truck off somewhere and have somebody else do the work - then the Ford F350 is the truck for you. If you enjoy turning wrenches and are willing to do regular maintenance the LMTV could be your truck. Service on the F350 is going to be less for sure. Download the "-10" book for the LMTV and read over what is expected of the operator.

The LMTV will go places that the Ford won't. It will pull more. I haven't hooked one to the other, but I would guess the LMTV should be able to drag the F350 down the trail backward... If you spend the bucks and buy an LMTV that isn't straight off the lot at GovPlanet, one that has been "gone over with a fine tooth comb" then you might find a little less work for yourself.

Me personally, I love my MTV trucks. On the other hand, I seem to always be doing something to them. I bought them from an individual not straight from GovPlanet. They may or MAY NOT be in better shape but they were at least twice the cost of an auction truck for sure.
 

Sailmike

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I know all that. I don’t mind doing the work myself. I’m just looking for the actual annual costs of maintaining the truck.
Oh, what book are you talking about? I looked that up and couldn’t find anything with that title.
 

Mullaney

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I know all that. I don’t mind doing the work myself. I’m just looking for the actual annual costs of maintaining the truck.
Oh, what book are you talking about? I looked that up and couldn’t find anything with that title.
TM-9-2320-366-10-1
TM-9-2320-366-10-2

Looking for the M1083 Series Technical Manuals. The "-10" is the operators guide. This one comes in two parts. If you don't see it, I can upload but they were in the TM Section last time I looked.
 

coachgeo

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Awesomeness

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The biggest issues impacting the cost of maintenance for an LMTV are that...
  1. These are 20 year old trucks, so anything plastic/rubber is slowly failing. It usually doesn't stop you dead in your tracks, but every couple months there is something else leaking that needs to be fixed.
  2. These are $150,000 trucks. Regardless of what you bought it for, you're buying parts for a $150,000 truck, and that means they are expensive. If you are ok with used/surplus/NOS parts, you can get some cool stuff much cheaper, but if you are broke down and need a part new/now, expect a bill in the thousands (it'll be $500-1000 just to tow it a short distance, plus parts, and $100+/hr in labor, etc.).
For me the number seems to be $500. Every month or two, I'm buying some $500 thing. I just found out a bunch of my cab marker lights were corroded to dust, and bought all new lights for like $500. A month ago I put in a new $500 seat. A new cargo cover will be $500. On and on.

And that's before you get into the upgrades. Those seem to be $5000. I put on a winch, $5000 (winch + shipping + hoses + fluids + ...). New tires, $5000 (tires + shipping + installation / tools + ...). High speed gears, $5000. AC, $5000.

Those are gross oversimplifications, but it's almost like "If you have to ask how much this is going to cost, you don't have enough money and it's not for you."
 

Mullaney

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The biggest issues impacting the cost of maintenance for an LMTV are that...
  1. These are 20 year old trucks, so anything plastic/rubber is slowly failing. It usually doesn't stop you dead in your tracks, but every couple months there is something else leaking that needs to be fixed.
  2. These are $150,000 trucks. Regardless of what you bought it for, you're buying parts for a $150,000 truck, and that means they are expensive. If you are ok with used/surplus/NOS parts, you can get some cool stuff much cheaper, but if you are broke down and need a part new/now, expect a bill in the thousands (it'll be $500-1000 just to tow it a short distance, plus parts, and $100+/hr in labor, etc.).
For me the number seems to be $500. Every month or two, I'm buying some $500 thing. I just found out a bunch of my cab marker lights were corroded to dust, and bought all new lights for like $500. A month ago I put in a new $500 seat. A new cargo cover will be $500. On and on.

And that's before you get into the upgrades. Those seem to be $5000. I put on a winch, $5000 (winch + shipping + hoses + fluids + ...). New tires, $5000 (tires + shipping + installation / tools + ...). High speed gears, $5000. AC, $5000.

Those are gross oversimplifications, but it's almost like "If you have to ask how much this is going to cost, you don't have enough money and it's not for you."

Wow. Very nicely stated Awesomeness .
 

Awesomeness

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Wow. Very nicely stated Awesomeness .
This question has been asked and answered a lot of times, so I've had practice. ;-)

And I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from getting an FMTV by saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford it". It's just a true statement. Because these are expensive trucks, and likely to have something expensive go wrong, you have to be ready to either drop $5000 to fix it at any moment, or walk away from the truck at that point. That's not something people are usually used to.
 
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Mullaney

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This question has been asked and answered a lot of times, so I've had practice. ;-)

And I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from getting an FMTV by saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford it". It's just a true statement. Because these are expensive trucks, and likely to have something expensive go wrong, you have to be ready to either drop $5000 to fix it at any moment, or walk away from the truck at that point. That's not something people are usually used to.
Noooo... I definitely didn't take it that way and I hope nobody else did either.

My personal discovery with these trucks is that you absolutely will be spending time working on them. More time than you originally planned on spending and if you are okay with that, it can work for you. If you expect any former military vehicle to be like a passenger car or truck then you will be in for a rude awakening. It is a lot better to know up front than after the first $5000 wrecker bill to haul you home.

Your suggestion of $500 per incident is amazingly accurate in my experience so far... Most recently, I needed a front windshield for my M1088. Got it from the original manufacturer who built them for Stewart & Stevenson. It arrived on my dock for almost exactly that amount of money. A lot of parts are available for the LMTVs. Some from the OEM suppliers to S&S, but all are going to be more than a similar part for a civilian vehicle.
 

frank8003

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I’m looking into buying either an F350 or LMTV and converting it into an RV. A big part of my decision is the maintenance costs. I’m trying to figure out whether it’s feasible for me to put aside money each month as I travel towards the annual maintenance. How much does it cost to maintain an LMTV each year?

If I was to get all the necessary repairs and/or upgrades at Grigsby Trucks or other similar company and keep up all the recommended maintenance, how often should I expect something to break down?
Just take the cost of maintaining the F -350 at the dealer and at least double it. Oh what the heck, triple it, adding in the cost of towing, hotels, nobody else wants to fix it and such as that.
 

Awesomeness

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My personal discovery with these trucks is that you absolutely will be spending time working on them. More time than you originally planned on spending and if you are okay with that, it can work for you. If you expect any former military vehicle to be like a passenger car or truck then you will be in for a rude awakening. It is a lot better to know up front than after the first $5000 wrecker bill to haul you home.
This is probably why you only see people around these forums for a year or two. They get an FMTV, but can't keep up with the persistent costs and man hours. So the first year they are all gung ho, but then it wears them out and they sell the truck off. You see dozens and dozens of "I'm building an offroad expedition camper" threads, and only a couple that are out on the road completed.

However, if you can manage to persevere for a few years, you'll eventually get over the hump. You'll have repaired the majority of significant problems with your truck, either from age or poor military mechanic work, and the problem rate drops.
 

Sailmike

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This is probably why you only see people around these forums for a year or two. They get an FMTV, but can't keep up with the persistent costs and man hours. So the first year they are all gung ho, but then it wears them out and they sell the truck off. You see dozens and dozens of "I'm building an offroad expedition camper" threads, and only a couple that are out on the road completed.

However, if you can manage to persevere for a few years, you'll eventually get over the hump. You'll have repaired the majority of significant problems with your truck, either from age or poor military mechanic work, and the problem rate drops.
I was asking about the cost of maintenance, not the cost of repairs. You did answer one of the questions I had in mind though. Funny, every time I ask a question on one of these forums, nobody answers it like here so far.
 

Awesomeness

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I was asking about the cost of maintenance, not the cost of repairs. You did answer one of the questions I had in mind though. Funny, every time I ask a question on one of these forums, nobody answers it like here so far.
I'm guessing you're smart enough to figure out what a 7 gallon oil change costs without asking. I interpret "cost of maintenance" to mean "cost to keep the truck in operational condition". The cost of performing the routine maintenance that the manual prescribes (e.g. oil change, grease some fittings, etc.) is trivial in comparison to the thousands you will spend trying to keep the truck operational.

EDIT: The more I think about this "I was only asking about maintenance, not repairs" argument, the sillier it is. I assume you're just pissed that you didn't hear the answer you wanted, but I'm going to humor you. I guess my "maintenance only" answer would be like $50/yr.
  • I've gone through a couple grease cartridges, $20/ea.
  • I've changed the oil twice ($200 each time), but one of those was because I had to replace the engine ($7000), which I guess falls under "repairs", so it doesn't count.
  • I changed the coolant ($250) when I replaced the engine ($7000) too, so that doesn't count either.
  • I replaced the transmission fluid ($250) when I broke one of the trans cooler lines ($300) and dumped it out on the road, so that's out too.
  • I replaced the hydraulic fluid in the cab-lift system ($100) when the latch seals ($100) blew and pumped a bunch out, so that's "repairs".
... basically none of the $25-30k I've spent while owning the truck has been on "maintenance". Stuff always breaks before I get that far.
 
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Mullaney

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I was asking about the cost of maintenance, not the cost of repairs. You did answer one of the questions I had in mind though. Funny, every time I ask a question on one of these forums, nobody answers it like here so far.
We aren't trying to be a bunch of boneheads. Maintenance though does include more than just oil changes and things like that. Definitely have a lot of things that need maintaining - like repairing the rubber airbags under the cab - that make the ride a lot smoother. Technically that might not be maintenance. Maybe that is just flat out repairs...

As far as maintenance is concerned, the oil capacity is twice to three times what the F350 would be. In the motor, in the transmission and in the axles. There are hundreds of grease fittings on these things. You can't take it to "JiffyLube" to be greased. I used a full tube of grease and part of another last weekend and about a half day of my time to do that job. I have no idea what that would be worth in a "by the job" shop, but it wouldn't be that much effort or time on a civilian truck.

Just trying to share a little of the experience that I have had so far - and EXPERT - nope. That isn't me for sure. Hope that helps you understand where we are coming from just a little...
 

Sailmike

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Alright, let me clarify. Manufacturers always have a maintenance schedule for their vehicles. Replace such and such a part at 25,000 miles for example. Maybe the CTIS should be inspected every some miles and some parts need lubing and/or replacing. Maybe the air brakes need to be disassembled, lubed, and reassembled. I’m just starting out on my research making a list of of all recurring or PREDICTABLE costs. All the repair costs I’ve heard here are unpredictable costs. I want the predictable annual cost of maintenance from those of you experts. These are costs that will always be there. Then from there I can see if I’m able to save up enough money for those unpredictable costs. All companies list recurring costs on their balance sheets. The unpredictable costs are always a separate entry. That’s what I’m doing here. I haven’t taken the plunge and bought one yet. I’ve also been asking Walt Grigsby a ton of questions.
Filters always need to be replaced, it’s just a matter of when. The coolant should be drained and replaced usually, again just a matter of when. Certain lines will get clogged and need to be cleaned. I should be able to do all of that myself saving me some money.
 

Sailmike

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There’s a saying, “if one wants something badly enough, they will find a way to make it happen.” Well, I’m doing the research to see if I can make it happen. Maybe there’s someone out there willing to put in the time to teach me how to do some of that maintenance and repairs?
 

Awesomeness

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Alright, let me clarify. Manufacturers always have a maintenance schedule for their vehicles. Replace such and such a part at 25,000 miles for example. Maybe the CTIS should be inspected every some miles and some parts need lubing and/or replacing. Maybe the air brakes need to be disassembled, lubed, and reassembled. I’m just starting out on my research making a list of of all recurring or PREDICTABLE costs. All the repair costs I’ve heard here are unpredictable costs. I want the predictable annual cost of maintenance from those of you experts. These are costs that will always be there. Then from there I can see if I’m able to save up enough money for those unpredictable costs. All companies list recurring costs on their balance sheets. The unpredictable costs are always a separate entry. That’s what I’m doing here. I haven’t taken the plunge and bought one yet. I’ve also been asking Walt Grigsby a ton of questions.
Filters always need to be replaced, it’s just a matter of when. The coolant should be drained and replaced usually, again just a matter of when. Certain lines will get clogged and need to be cleaned. I should be able to do all of that myself saving me some money.
You're looking at the problem all wrong, and asking the wrong question(s) because of it.

The "predictable costs" are very small. Most are not time based, but rather mileage based. Because these trucks are not driven like a daily-driver, the maintenance schedules don't mean as much as they might otherwise. For example, I've put several thousand miles on my truck, in the several years I've owned it - this would barely be enough for one oil change, according to the book.

The "unpredictable costs" are so high, they render the "predictable costs" trivial and meaningless. As I explained in my "EDIT:" post above, the "predictable costs" I've paid as a result of routine maintenance are basically just a couple hundred dollars (one oil change and some grease is seriously all I can think of). But I've spent $25-30k (on top of the purchase cost of the truck) fixing, repairing, replacing, and upgrading stuff. I keep a detailed list, but you're basically looking at $500/mo (not including fuel, insurance, etc.), if you do the math ($25-30k / 5-6 years).

Maybe 1/2 of that $25-30k was critically necessary (e.g. new engine after previous one broke, rebalance driveshafts because they destroyed the engine, get custom hydraulic line made to replace broken trans cooler line, $500/ea batteries QTY 4, etc.), and 1/2 was preventative or upgrades (e.g. high speed axle gears, new driver's seat, step bumper, crane, etc.).

And that's not including the thousands of dollars of tools I've bought, because I do all the work myself. (So to be clear, that $25-30k number above is without paying anyone to work on my truck, and doing it all myself!)
 
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Awesomeness

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So, these trucks will NEVER be reliable?
No, no 20+ year old vehicles are, until you've owned it long enough to have replaced everything made out of plastic and rubber.

That's why one from Accela costs $150k. They buy one at auction for $10k, then put $50k of parts, and $100k of labor into it, to replace all the hoses, seals, valves, etc.
 

Awesomeness

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There are some FMTVs around that were refurbished at depot in like 2008. They are noticeably nicer, and would probably buy you some extra longetivity. They sell for a premium, of course.

These trucks will go a lot of places, and do a lot of things an F-650 won't. I'm not trying to talk you out of one, just making sure you know what you're getting into. But a 1990's F-650 is going to have the same problems with hoses and seals failing... plastic just doesn't stay pliable forever. So with an old truck, you either spend a lot of money to replace everything right away as prevention, or pay for it as it fails.
 
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