Another way to Bob a Deuce!

[Trudge]

...............wellt im a AWS certifide welder 4G ( working on my 6G) and unless there are some brackets out there i dont know about ..........i would feal much more better about bolting them on with some grade eight hard wear!! And bieleve me I weld everything I can!!!! so i dont know , but welding is cheaper then buying all the hard wear to do it with bolts

 

[stumps]

Cheaper until it breaks and someone gets hurt, or gets scared, and thinks they could have gotten hurt.

I am an amateur welder, I took all of the courses at the local community college except overhead. Supposedly I should have been ready for the AWS SMAW tests using the E6010 rod when I was done, but I had no need to take them, so why bother?

Frames on trucks are designed to flex. They are really very stiff springs. When you lift one axle over the others, they will twist. The problem in the deuce frame is so exaggerated that they used coil springs to mount the bed/box to the frame to allow the frame to move quite a lot without breaking the bed/box up.

I would no sooner weld a truck frame than I would a leaf spring.

-Chuck

 

[100dollarman]

Well, looks like all my research has come up with about a 70% Welding a frame is do-able, and about 30% is DONT DO IT.

I think it will be fine after seeing it done in person, and talking to a few experts.

In any event, this one IS welded and finished for now---

Here it is in all its glory- welded frame, 395s on stock wheels, and hubs not flipped. I think it came out good. Still may end up doing some paint, or flip the hubs, or change the wheel/tire combo. But for now, its done.

I took it for a 10 mile shakedown run today. Truck runs and drives really nice. No balancing of the tires. It still amazes me how easy the steering gets when we bob and put big tires. Also- no axle wrap at all. At 60mph it wanders just a bit- not bad, but you need to pay attention. Need to adjust tire pressures a bit to see what is best.

Again- Thanks to everyone for the information and opinions--- I am not sure if I will do the next one exactly the same way- I am going to think about it...

 

[rchalmers3]

Hundy, any possibility of you posting a photo of the rear of the truck, showing the fenders covering the rear tires? I'd like to learn from your method exactly how much, if at all, the 105 bed and fenders leave the tire and rim combo exposed. Where I'm at you can't get away with much tire hanging outside the fender.

thanks,

Rick

 

[100dollarman]

Hundy, any possibility of you posting a photo of the rear of the truck, showing the fenders covering the rear tires? I'd like to learn from your method exactly how much, if at all, the 105 bed and fenders leave the tire and rim combo exposed. Where I'm at you can't get away with much tire hanging outside the fender.

thanks,

Rick

They do stick out--- I dont have a pic of this one (I'll get one later if I cant find one), but let me look for a pic of another truck that may show it better...

 

[100dollarman]

These pics show how much they stick out from the fenders a little better...

 

[Unforgiven]

I'll stick my $0.02 in on the welding question.

As I understand it, M35 frames are mild steel, not spring or hardened steel. Grundletaube informed me that the bumperettes are spring steel. Therefore avoid welding those. Judicious welding on a frame should be fine. The key word is Judicious. 9 times out of 10 it is better to drill & bolt to a frame. Some exceptions that rock crawlers use is to weld reinforcements to their spring hangers. Professional chop shops MIG weld frames all the time when stretching or shortening a custom vehicle.

That welder really needs to clean the metal better first! I mean jeez. Also, ever heard of grinding + multiple passes? I'm sorry but I'd consider that weld you posted as just a filler. Another pass on the top,bottom, then middle would be much stronger. But then you have to start thinking about the heat.

Anyone ever tried TIG? It takes a lot longer. You need to be an octopus on a unicycle to run a bead. But when you are done you have the highest quality, strongest, and smallest heat zone welds. X-ray quality welds on nuclear reactors are TIG. You could run a few inches at a time & have a very strong, clean weld in short order. With TIG you can even weld different metals together. If time is not a concern, then TIG should be your weld of choice. And YES, you can TIG weld just about any steel you can think of with very good results. It's not just for aluminum. The key to any welding job is to clean, clean, then clean again before you even start.

 

[100dollarman]

Trust me, no welds are made unless it is ground to clean metal. One of the things that I didnt mention is how this build took extra time because this particular frame was covered with a very tough coating of some kind. It took torching and then grinding to get it all off to prep for welding. We had not seen this coating before. We were thinking maybe because it was a M109 box truck it had some different coating applied to it? This was the first box truck we had bobbed.

I dont have a side pic to show the cleaning of the metal on the frame, but here is one showing good grinding even when it is in a place that is hard to get to, and wont be seen...

 

[Unforgiven]

My mistake. I must have been thinking of a different photo. The one I'm thinking of the guy didn't even grind the paint off the top piece of metal. I've known people that weld right over rust, paint, grease, whatever. And I make it a point to never ride in their cars

 

[rat4spd]

You can argue TIG, MIG, SMAW all day long as to heat affected zone, ect, ect......but in reality, no one method is better than the other. They all have their place, and one method may be better than the other for various reasons.

We have 600# steam lines that have TIG roots and SMAW (701 hot passes and caps, and 5P roots with 7018 hot passes and caps. Your example of nukes using TIG more or less has to do with contamination of the system.

 

[rchalmers3]

Hundy, if you flip the rear hubs and mount the tire/wheels in reverse (ala inside), will it pull the tires inside the fenders?

Rick

 

[stumps]

My mistake. I must have been thinking of a different photo. The one I'm thinking of the guy didn't even grind the paint off the top piece of metal. I've known people that weld right over rust, paint, grease, whatever. And I make it a point to never ride in their cars

This one, perhaps?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...073d1260494820-another-way-bob-deuce-weld.jpg

-Chuck

 

[100dollarman]

This one, perhaps?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...073d1260494820-another-way-bob-deuce-weld.jpg

-Chuck

Was ground to clean metal at ALL welds! NO paint or dirt or anything else was welded through.

 

[stumps]

I only pointed to this picture because there is rust showing on other parts near the weld, and I was wondering if that is what Unforgiven was remembering.

I can see that you ground things cleanly on the top of the trailer frame, but it is not at all evident on the deuce frame. Plus, there doesn't appear to be much penetration, but pictures very often play tricks on you.

-Chuck

 

[100dollarman]

I only pointed to this picture because there is rust showing on other parts near the weld, and I was wondering if that is what Unforgiven was remembering.

I can see that you ground things cleanly on the top of the trailer frame, but it is not at all evident on the deuce frame. Plus, there doesn't appear to be much penetration, but pictures very often play tricks on you.

-Chuck

Fair enough--- the pics really dont show the grinding very well. Here are a couple more pics that may show a little better---

 

[stumps]

Those look much nicer! Thanks!

-Chuck

 

[100dollarman]

Hundy, if you flip the rear hubs and mount the tire/wheels in reverse (ala inside), will it pull the tires inside the fenders?

Rick

I actually have another rear axle already flipped for this truck. I havent switched it as of yet because I am not 100% sure the tires will clear with this tire/wheel combo. The inner fenderwell/bed of the M105 bed is going to be close with the hubs flipped and the stock wheel/14.00 tire set-up. I need to do some measuring. I am also measuring up for a hub flip and 100dollarman wheels with 395s or 14.00s.

If and when I change something up, I'll report my findings! I am trying to keep the price down on this truck---- if I add the converted wheels, that adds about $1200 to the price. My customer always has the option to upgrade if desired. Right now, this truck is at $6000 plus $1000 in tires.

 

[100dollarman]

Those look much nicer! Thanks!

-Chuck

Thank you for helping to keep us honest! We try to think outside the box and some ideas work better than others. But, I dont want anyone thinking that we dont at least clean and grind before welding!LOL

 

[rat4spd]

Plus, there doesn't appear to be much penetration, but pictures very often play tricks on you.

-Chuck

Since the frames are rounded the weld is actually a fillet weld, and penetration isn't as important as good fusion.

 

[chaplain]

Question, I have watched lots of bobbed deuce articles and I own a 1969 m-35 but I am still learning. If you had a choice of choosing the front or rear axle for the bob which would it be? would one have less wear and tear or are they both equal and identical? I would think that a person would choose the best of the two for his/her own truck.