Any old M113A1 mechanics out there? Just curious about a bus engine that might fit..

[MarcusOReallyus]

Hey, folks. I was mech infantry in the '70s, and put more than a few miles on a track. I have a question about possible compatible bus engines that could be put into a 113. Well, not just the engine, but the whole "pack" - the engine, transfer case, and transmission. (I think?)

While on Reforger in '77, my TOW section was attached to an armored company for convoy purposes out to [wherever it was], and I was assigned to drive their command track (they didn't have a licensed driver available!).

The thing had about zero maintenance, and broke down on the trip. I got hauled back in with the vehicle (now I'm separated from my TOW section) and spent a weekend helping the mechanics pull the pack and replace it, and catch up on some basic maintenance. (Like adjusting the laterals. Things were so far out of whack I almost got killed the first time I had to stop quickly.)

They said it was a pack from a bus, but it would fit even though it was a bigger engine. That's what they said.

Well, it did fit, though I seem to recall a little fiddling of some throttle cabling, and off we went to rejoin the games, and hopefully find my unit. I found it was definitely peppier than a standard track.


Anybody know if this "bus powerplant" story could be true? I know that's what the mechanics told me, but I wouldn't know a bus pack from a proper track pack. Pulling those things was way above driver level maintenance. Most I had ever done before was to assist the battalion mechanics in pulling a pack.

Whatever it was, there was a definite difference in horsepower with that new pack in place. It was the quickest track I have ever driven.

Any ideas?

 

[historyfanatics]

If I remember right, the power pack in the M113 diesel series is the 6V-53. Essentially, a bus/heavy truck engine. It's also a pretty standard power plant for everything else - boats, gen-sets, etc.

Heck, even the PBR's used the same engine, with modifications for cooling.

So, yes, the story could be true.

 

[battlecr]

Well we must of chewed some the same dirt then I was in a mechanized engineer company in 77, We were on that Reforger. As memory serves, the engine in the 113 was a 6v53 detroit. It's possible that the engine they stuck in it was a 6v71 detroit. it had a few more ponys then the 53 series. but the block was the same size. After the 71 series Detroit went to the 92 series great tough 2 cylce diesel engines that fell victum to California emissions. The engines were extreamly versitile the engine actually sat crossways in the back of the buss. But most buses I've seen had 8V's in them. 6V's wouldn't have enough ponies to push a very big bus untill you got to the 92 series engines.

 

[Hasbeen]

Several years ago our company rebuilt 50 or so "powerpacks" for the M113a1. They were the 6v53 with Allison tx100 transmission that was bolted to the engine via a "cross drive". This configuration placed the transmission alongside and parallel to the engine, with the transmission output shaft facing forward like the engine`s front crankshaft pulley.

I`m not familiar with the 6v53 as it was configured for a bus, but the M113 engines evolved something like this (don`t quote me because I am paraphrasing from memory)

The base model m113 may have been a v8 gasoline engine (Chrysler product?)
The M113a1 was 6v53 Detroit (315 horse power natural aspirated) Allison tx100 transmission
The M113a2 was 6v53T Detroit (350 horse power turbocharged) Allison tx100 transmission
The M113a3 was v53t Detroit (385 horsepower turbocharged Aluminum block?) tx200 transmission

Those 2 cycle Detroits were, and are great to listen to. Their model numbers tell you basically what they are...6v53
means ; 6 cylinder, "v" configuration, 53 cubic inches per cylinder, T for turbocharged, and A for aftercooled.
Same holds true for the 71,92, and 110 series.

Hasbeen

 

[battlecr]

Great info Hasbeen. An old buss we have out on the drill field has an 8v71 that has some kind of power pack set up. Looks to be a real pain. The detroits were one of the best engines ever built for fire apparatus. durable and cheap to rebuild. One of the biggest problems we had with the 6v53 on the113's was people reving up the engine then pulling the engine stop. Would shear the quill shaft to the blower every time. We got pretty fast at replacing them.

I was helping the mechanics pull a power pack one Friday night (I was running the front loader and not getting to drink beer) we put in the new pack, I told one the mech's we should fire it up just to be sure it was ok. Had smoke out the intake and nothing out the exhaust. Turns out the blower had been installed backwards. So out she came and back to the 3rd shop. That was a wasted evening.


Don G.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Thanks, gentlemen!


WARNING: Old Fart's War Story Ahead!

Hey, battlecr, I didn't chew much dirt on that Reforger. My TOW section got attached to an Armor company for the convoy out, and they didn't have a licensed 113 driver. In the infantry, pretty much every swinging Richard has a license - it's what we do. But the armor guys don't do that. The only licensed driver they had was their comm sergeant, who was out on the advance party. The Polizei said, no license, no move. So, I got volunteered to drive the thing. It was a piece of JUNK. No maintenance. First time I had to make a stop I nearly ran off the road - the laterals were so badly misaligned when I pulled back evenly on both of them I took a sharp right turn. It was dicey there for a few seconds. Anyway, it broke down about an hour out, and that was last I saw of my TOW section until the whole thing wrapped up and we were back at base camp. I got hauled back in and we burned the midnight oil swapping the pack. It was a case of the blind leading the blind. These guys were something like division level maintenance, and didn't usually pull the engines - they received already pulled engines to repair.

Anyway, got carried back out to some drop-off point with a few other vehicles, then started a night-time convoy to re-join my unit. Broke down again. Spent the next two weeks in a field with a couple of broken down M-60s. Maintenance would come by every few days to tinker with one or more of the vehicles and resupply us with C-rats. We'd take their truck to the nearest down (about 10 clicks away) and get some civilian food, and that was how I spent my Reforger time.

They finally got it fixed in time for the big convoy back in. The comm sergeant rejoined his assigned vehicle and tried to take over driving, but by that time his name was MUD with his First Sergeant. Seems a certain Infantry SP4 had had a few conversations with him about all the routine maintenance that had NOT been done, and all the work that said SP4 had put into it to make it safe to drive (including the laterals and a HOST of other driver level stuff!) and Top was NOT happy with his comm sergeant. So the SP4 got to tell the sergeant where to get off and he could talk to his First Sergeant if he had a problem with that. He did, and didn't say any more when he came back to ride in the back for the convoy.

Best part? Most of the ride he's up in the TC hatch sitting high, like we often did. Butt in the curve of the open hatch and feet resting on the .50 cal mount. Completely exposed. We're cruising at about 15 mph through a small town, and the locals are out in force watching us. I see a boy on the right with a look on his face and an apple in his hand. He lets fly with a Sandy Koufax style pitch, and I look around just in time to see the comm sergeant take it square in the chest. That thing just exploded in a hundred pieces, and comm just sort of folded up. Thank you, German kid!

 

[battlecr]

Oh don't get me started on war stories. One thing for sure the 113's when they had the rubber pads on them don't work worth a crap on snow and Ice. We were at Baumhlder I was heading up a hill with my 5ton dump, it was packed snow, my LT starts hollering I looked up and saw a track coming down the hill at us sideways. I bailed my truck off the side of the road just as they went by. Some of the guys bailed, thought she was going to flip but it didn't when it finally went off the road. Scared the crap out of me I know that.


The 113's were sure fun to drive though!


Don G.

 

[319]

Heres pics of the power pack. I cannot tell if this is a 53 or 71.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Battlecr and MarcusOReallyus: Not to change the subject or jack the thread, I also "chewed the same dirt" as was also a participant in the Reforger '77 exercises. I was stationed at H.D. Smith Barracks, Baumholder, "West" Germany in the 8th Division 3/16th Field Arty.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Oh don't get me started on war stories. One thing for sure the 113's when they had the rubber pads on them don't work worth a crap on snow and Ice.

Tell me about it! I was mech infantry at Ft. Carson, at the foot of the Rockies. I drove a mile or two on snow and ice. They were better than the Gama Goats, though!

The 113's were sure fun to drive though!

Hee hee! The most fun I ever had driving anything was on that same convoy back in to Bobligen (sp?). We were in a massive long line - I don't know how many vehicles. We came to another highway, and the Polizei stopped the convoy to let some traffic go by. They happened to stop ME. So, when they let us go, I knew that I had a ways ahead of me where the road was empty of civilian traffic, and the next guy was a ways ahead. So, I had the road to myself. This was at the top of a descent from a plateau area down to a lower level, and it was down a winding old cobblestone road. Old Roman road, likely. I took that thing as fast as I've ever driven a track, sliding around the corners and having a ball!

Oh, that comm sergeant? He was screaming "SLOW DOWN!" in the intercom the first part of the way down, and I was laughing at him. He was black when we started down, but he was a nasty shade of gray when we got to the bottom.


If you're getting the idea that I didn't much like him, you're getting the right idea!

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Battlecr and MarcusOReallyus: Not to change the subject or jack the thread, I also "chewed the same dirt" as was also a participant in the Reforger '77 exercises. I was stationed at H.D. Smith Barracks, Baumholder, "West" Germany in the 8th Division 3/16th Field Arty.

Wow! Those games were pretty widespread, then. We were down near Stuttgart. A maintenance facility (I think) at Boblingen. I have no clue where the actual games were - all I knew was that we were going to be operating in "Bavaria", which isn't exactly a precise location. Except for when I was actually at Boblingen, I never knew where I was.

 

[Stan Leschert]

Post this request on Mapleleafup.net Rob is a carrier mech and is frequently on that site. He's the best one to answer.

 

[wehring]

This is the newer crossdrive I have been looking for. Anyone have one?

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112

 

[battlecr]

Battlecr and MarcusOReallyus: Not to change the subject or jack the thread, I also "chewed the same dirt" as was also a participant in the Reforger '77 exercises. I was stationed at H.D. Smith Barracks, Baumholder, "West" Germany in the 8th Division 3/16th Field Arty.

I tell you guys I had no clue where I was at on that Reforger, I followed the jump CP for 3 days. We got so lost that we ended up driving through the enemy motor pool. We were moving constantly. I'm glad I was driving a 5ton. least it had power steering. I was stationed at Lee Barracks, Mainz (West) Germany I was in A Co. 12th Engr's we were attached to the 1st Brigade of the 8th Infantry. Spent allot time freezing my a** off up in Baumholder though.

 

[rammer64]

Heres pics of the power pack. I cannot tell if this is a 53 or 71.

That is an M113A3 power pack. I have the least amount of experience with the A3 (too new) but they were a 6v53T.

 

[rammer64]

Several years ago our company rebuilt 50 or so "powerpacks" for the M113a1. They were the 6v53 with Allison tx100 transmission that was bolted to the engine via a "cross drive". This configuration placed the transmission alongside and parallel to the engine, with the transmission output shaft facing forward like the engine`s front crankshaft pulley.

I`m not familiar with the 6v53 as it was configured for a bus, but the M113 engines evolved something like this (don`t quote me because I am paraphrasing from memory)

The base model m113 may have been a v8 gasoline engine (Chrysler product?)
The M113a1 was 6v53 Detroit (315 horse power natural aspirated) Allison tx100 transmission
The M113a2 was 6v53T Detroit (350 horse power turbocharged) Allison tx100 transmission
The M113a3 was v53t Detroit (385 horsepower turbocharged Aluminum block?) tx200 transmission

Those 2 cycle Detroits were, and are great to listen to. Their model numbers tell you basically what they are...6v53
means ; 6 cylinder, "v" configuration, 53 cubic inches per cylinder, T for turbocharged, and A for aftercooled.
Same holds true for the 71,92, and 110 series.

Hasbeen

The M113 had a Chrysler 318 gas engine.
M113A1 and A2 both had the 6v53's
The M113A3 had the 6v53T and the cross drive transmission.
I don't know what the HP ratings where but I am pretty sure that they were not even close to 300hp.

 

[rammer64]

Hey, folks. I was mech infantry in the '70s, and put more than a few miles on a track. I have a question about possible compatible bus engines that could be put into a 113. Well, not just the engine, but the whole "pack" - the engine, transfer case, and transmission. (I think?)

While on Reforger in '77, my TOW section was attached to an armored company for convoy purposes out to [wherever it was], and I was assigned to drive their command track (they didn't have a licensed driver available!).

The thing had about zero maintenance, and broke down on the trip. I got hauled back in with the vehicle (now I'm separated from my TOW section) and spent a weekend helping the mechanics pull the pack and replace it, and catch up on some basic maintenance. (Like adjusting the laterals. Things were so far out of whack I almost got killed the first time I had to stop quickly.)

They said it was a pack from a bus, but it would fit even though it was a bigger engine. That's what they said.

Well, it did fit, though I seem to recall a little fiddling of some throttle cabling, and off we went to rejoin the games, and hopefully find my unit. I found it was definitely peppier than a standard track.


Anybody know if this "bus powerplant" story could be true? I know that's what the mechanics told me, but I wouldn't know a bus pack from a proper track pack. Pulling those things was way above driver level maintenance. Most I had ever done before was to assist the battalion mechanics in pulling a pack.

Whatever it was, there was a definite difference in horsepower with that new pack in place. It was the quickest track I have ever driven.

Any ideas?

I suppose it would have been possible for them to have gotten ahold of a 6V53 with larger injectors. The 6v53T would not have fit because the fan tower is directly over the engine where the turbo would need to be, also the exhaust system would have needed to be built from scratch.

 

[jcappeljr]

I am looking for a good running 6v53 for my M548.Let me know if anybody has one .thanks..Or a complete power pack.

 

[rammer64]

Great info Hasbeen. An old buss we have out on the drill field has an 8v71 that has some kind of power pack set up. Looks to be a real pain. The detroits were one of the best engines ever built for fire apparatus. durable and cheap to rebuild. One of the biggest problems we had with the 6v53 on the113's was people reving up the engine then pulling the engine stop. Would shear the quill shaft to the blower every time. We got pretty fast at replacing them.

I was helping the mechanics pull a power pack one Friday night (I was running the front loader and not getting to drink beer) we put in the new pack, I told one the mech's we should fire it up just to be sure it was ok. Had smoke out the intake and nothing out the exhaust. Turns out the blower had been installed backwards. So out she came and back to the 3rd shop. That was a wasted evening.


Don G.

Smoke coming out of the intake is what happens when the quill shaft is broken. What also causes the quill shaft to break, most often was; during cold weather start-up you needed to disconnect the transfer case to make it easier for the engine to turn over. When you disconnect the engine it has no resistance or load. As someone stated, these engines sound really cool, well they really sound good when they rev-up to 2800 rpm in about 1 1/2 seconds! It is so cool that some could cannot resist doing it, and it breaks a lot of quill shafts, especially a cold engine.

 

[militaro]

The M113 had a Chrysler 318 gas engine.
M113A1 and A2 both had the 6v53's
The M113A3 had the 6v53T and the cross drive transmission.
I don't know what the HP ratings where but I am pretty sure that they were not even close to 300hp.

You are right, A1 and 2 :215HP, A3 turbo only 275HP