Anyone Grid tied their generator?

[Bmxenbrett]

The $450 in gas a month and nothing in electric seams fishy. Did you go to gas appliances to lower your electric bill and now need more electric loads to lower the gas?

$450 a month is a alot on gas. My house is mostly electric becids the heater. My bill is $200. Electric water heater, stove and hot tub. Here i thought nat gas was cheap.

Also im sure you know this but you buy electric at retail and sell power back that you havnt used at retail. At least here thats how it works. So its not beneficial to produce more power than you use no mater how you make it.

 

[DieselAddict]

I am not trying to offend anyone here. I value the input, experience and knowledge that others have that is why I ask questions. The basic question I asked was a simple one about connectivity OPTIONS. Further information as to why, what for and so on seem irrelevant. I am seeking options and others experience if they had already done something like this on a small scale. Why reinvent the wheel right? We have two 8 megawatt gas/diesel turbine co-generation plants at work that power a few of the buildings with steam and electrical power. We also feed power back to the electric company in some cases. My "dribbling" of information was a response to questions about the why, what for and so on. To answer another question "dribble more information" I already have 43 panels on my garage that almost eliminate my ELECTRIC bill but I use gas to heat my house and garage. Last months gas bill was over $400. My goal is to eliminate the gas expense by switching to other heating means so if I am going to make electricity for my electric boiler why not reclaim the otherwise lost heat produced by the engine?

To give you a more direct answer, it is challenging if not next to impossible to get co-gen approval for a residential install. The MEPs do not have the correct type of speed control or voltage regulator to make them suitable for parallel operation with a utility (or each other - except for those specifically outfitted for such). In addition they lack the protection systems required for grid tie.

For one project I was working on we were upgrading generator controls on 2MW of diesel to move from stand-by to load share. That changed the connection class from 100ms max connect time to continuous. The controls and protection systems we needed to add was well into six figures for equipment alone. With programming, application fees, and install it was a $600k job. These generators already had compatible speed controls and voltage regulators.

Can you do it with a light bulb and some luck? Sure. Legally? No way. As already pointed out your best bet is to run the generator into the battery bank and let your existing grid tie system take care of the energy allocation.

That said - If you ISLAND yourself from the grid and want to tie your generator to your solar system that is something completely different and totally doable. Your inverter likely has that capability already. Mine does (Xantrex 6048 ).

 

[Chainbreaker]

I am not trying to offend anyone here.

No offense taken here.

The basic question I asked was a simple one about connectivity OPTIONS.

The responses you received to your inquiry about direct generator tie to electrical grid have essentially been a resounding..."NO, don't do it for a multitude of reasons".

Further information as to why, what for and so on seem irrelevant.

It becomes relevant when you don't accept "NO" as the answer you are looking for. Don't take all this the wrong way, what you are wanting to do as far as co-generation goes is very interesting, practical and useful given the RIGHT approach to it. To do that right the devil is in the details you provide as to how that might be incorporated into doing a proper, safe and approved grid energy allocation as "DieselAddict" has suggested "As already pointed out your best bet is to run the generator into the battery bank and let your existing grid tie system take care of the energy allocation".

With your providing more information you have received some good suggestions. Its up to you whether you accept the advice provided.

 

[Ray70]

Eliteweapons, is your solar system currently tied to the grid using a UL approved grid tie inverter and using net metering?
Here in RI I had looked into a similar scenario years ago and found that I could use any power source I wanted, ( regardless of how efficient or inefficient ) as long as I fed it through the specific UL style grid tie inverter ( to syncronize with the grid ) called out by the power company. These specialty inverters have all the automatic disconnect functionality built in, so they automatically disconnect from the grid in the event of a power outage.
This is the only legal way you can back feed into the grid. You need the specific inverter your local power company calls for, it has to be properly sized for your power production, installed and inspected etc.
Once approved you can pump power through it from any source you want. The inverter takes care of frequency syncronization, auto disconnect, etc.

 

[Eliteweapons]

Yes. I have a title II power generating certificate for my system approved by the power company and the state.

 

[Bulldogger]

I already have 43 panels on my garage that almost eliminate my ELECTRIC bill but I use gas to heat my house and garage. Last months gas bill was over $400. My goal is to eliminate the gas expense by switching to other heating means so if I am going to make electricity for my electric boiler why not reclaim the otherwise lost heat produced by the engine?

As someone who works in the energy field, my first reaction is that your house and garage need SERIOUS energy efficiency attention. I live an hour from you and my gas bill was $100 last month for a decent size 4 Br house. Admittedly, I do not heat my garage with gas. While adding insulation and better windows sounds expensive, you're clearly a DIY kind of guy and energy improvements do not have to be hard. Insulation blow-in equipment is not terribly expensive to rent, and replacing door and window seals is easy, as is using a few cans of spray foam to hit cracks and penetrations. Even if you are stuck with single pane windows, those plastic storm window kits do work, as long as you can keep the kids from throwing stuff at them(!).

Energy efficiency treatments will pay for themselves fast at the rate you're paying.

Bulldogger

 

[Eliteweapons]

My garage has floor radiant heat is insulated and is 1200 square ft. My house is just over 3100 sq ft and was build in 1937. I am not ripping all the plaster lattice walls out and adding insulation there. Insulation is where it can be added without a major renovation. Windows are all high efficiency but 2 doors could be upgraded. EVERYONE here in my area that I have talked to has had at least $300 bills last month and they have alot smaller houses and no heated garage.

 

[Kenny0]

Blow in insulation from the outside. If brick or stucco it should still be doable from the inside, but would require more work. Sealing leaks and insulating are excellent investments. Do it yourself and payback could be 1 year.

 

[naehring2000]

I know this is a reply to an old thread and I understand what I'm about to say was never the OP's intentions, but if some internet lurker sees this and thinks he could load bank his MEP using the grid I want to make very clear a couple scenarios that could play out that I as a lineman could be doing in your neighborhood (yes I am a lineman).

Say you manage to get your set in sync and not destroy it and I roll up to your neighborhood and either am there to replace your transformer or add a transformer to your neighborhood here are the 2 scenarios that play out.

Your MEP is chugging away back feeding the grid and getting a workout, I come along to replace your transformer, I open the fuse and start taking the transformer offline, except you are back feeding secondary voltage which in turn is being stepped up by the transformer I'm there to replace. When I go to take the secondary leads off the line I get a nice explosion in my face as I drop the coils in the transformer, like a molten metal in my face and all over the ground explosion as the wire melts away.

The other scenario is you back feeding the grid one day and me coming and replacing your transformer the next day but the two hot legs on the transformer got reversed and your gen is now out of phase.