anyone wanna help the new guy?

[06streetrod]

first off, i wanted to say thank you. i've been searching these threads for weeks now, and have already found alot of answers. about a month ago i bought an 84 cucv that was sitting for a few years. when i bought it the guy said it didn't have a fuel filter and he never got around to installing one, and when he popped the hood, guess what was staring me in the face. so right off the bat i knew i was in for some work. was running alright for a few days.

here's what i've done so far...
-oil change
-new air filter
-new fuelfilter(of course)
-added injector cleaner to a newly filled tank
-took out elec gasoline fuel pump and installed new mech pump that went out years ago.
-replaced injector pump (went out 3 days after i bought it)
-had injectors tested (all good)
-thoroughly bled entire fuel system (3 times, positive there's no more air)
-replaced transmission vacuum lines that were falling apart
-new glow plugs (all of which are working properly)

might i add that the gp's i took off the right side were the right ones(ac delco, 10.5v) the exact same ones the parts store gave me, but the ones off the left side were bosch 11v. they wouldn't even fit back into the boxes when i was cleaning up the old gp's, they were too long.

now here's where i need help....

i'm getting the "continuous white smoke with diesel smell" i've seen a couple others here struggle with.

i can get it started, but it wants to die when it's running and i throttle up, and when the rpms come back down, it dies unless i bring the rpm's down slowly, and i have the idle adjusted all the way up right now.

it also dies when i put in into reverse or drive unless i give it a little throttle.

just took it for a drive around the block...

when i'm sitting still idling, and i give stomp the gas pedal, the engine responds immediatley and the "white diesel smoke" increases as well. when i put it in gear(with throttle so it doesn't die), the engine doesn't respond as well when i mash the pedal. it took me an entire block's length to get the speed up to 25. not to mention the intoxicating cloud that followed, which i'm sure the neighbors didn't like since the weathers nice and everyone's outside right now.

i am getting power to the pink wire on top of the ip also.

the only thing that i know of left to do is get the low and high idle adjusted, assuming i can get it to not die without letting the throttle out slowly, and to get the transmission vacuum valve adjusted.

so here's my questions......

will the transmission vacuum valve not being adjusted keep the engine from dying when i put it in gear and the slow throttle response once it is in gear?

is the piece on the back of the block where the distributor would be that one of the vacuum lines go to need to be adjusted (it got turned when i was removing the intake manifold)?

why do i still have the "white diesel smoke"?

any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. again thank you.

 

[neilhendrix]

Welcome to S S .Sorry I can`t help with the CUCV. I have a deuce. Do a search here in the resources Lots of info there. I`m also some of the CUCV guys will chime in . If that is your CUCV in your avatar You gotta get some GREEN on it .

 

[06streetrod]

in case you watned to know

was white with red reflector tape and purple widows when i got it, which i wasn't too fond of. I actually had a case of flat black spray paint left over from some projects with my past jeeps. so i taped it up and walla! i also spent HOURS scraping off two layers of 10+ year old tint. i would like to have a black and green digital pattern on it, but i'm not that talented with the ol rattle can.

 

[swyne]

Head gasket??

 

[06streetrod]

head gasket

don't think so. wouldn't i have water in oil and vice versa? there's no oil in radiator and oil is still cleanish with no water.

 

[Dabba]

plus you smell deisel in the fuel. IIRC white smoke is unburned deisel, so yeah, im guessing lots of unburned diesel which explains the power loss but i couldnt tell you why, im not that knowedgable. Compression check?

 

[06streetrod]

yeah, i guess i'm going to go to the parts store tomorrow and rent the gage for the compression test. i'm kinda scared to see the results though. with it running ok-ish before the ip went out, what are the chances the rings blew at the same time? i didn't have the "white diesel smoke" until i changed the injector pump.

 

[BobM]

Have you checked your timing? You said that you replaced the IP and that can, of course, affect the timing. How was it running before the old IP failed? Did this happen just after you installed the rebuilt IP?
Just another thought!

 

[Crash_AF]

Where did you get the pump? Could it be a 6.5 pump or one that is 'turned up' for a turbo?

It definitely sounds like it's overfueling. You might want to take it out on the interstate or drive it on some roads with some hills that would work the engine some and see if it calms down. If you have a trailer with a pintle hook, you might want to put some real load on it to see if that helps too.

Also, check the oil level to see if it's rising due to fuel leaking down the cylinders and into the oil.

Later,
Joe

 

[jrou111]

It's def. an injection pump issue.

 

[06streetrod]

got the ip from dieselcare.net, they were super-nice on the phone and i had an immediate deliver on the ip. they kept coming up as the #1 referral on all of my searches($$$$$). when i pulled off the old one, the drive shaft on it litteraly fell out. i ordered a 6.2heavy duty pump. the site said most people ordered the hd one, even if you previously had a ld pump(said it didn't matter). i'm 99% sure the timing gears are still lined up-had extreme minimal play when i removed the ip......

if i advance or retard the ip(currently the hash marks are dead on), would i be able to tell if it was the timing gears?

i'll check the oil in the morning, and let the wifey know to stand by the phone while i take it on the highway. i got some pretty good hills here in centex. i have a pop-up trailer(cucv already had a hitch installed, no more pintle), but it only weighs a couple hundred lbs. i'll probably put a couple of my tool boxes in to help weigh it down, then check the oil during the drive, and again when i get back.....to check about the fuel in the oil. probably still do the compression test when i get back if it's not combat ready by then.

 

[kennyw]

You should take it in to a mechanic with a diesel timing light and get the timing set before you do any more trouble shooting. Those timing marks are only good for the stock injector pump (but close enough to get you running if you replace it).

 

[BobM]

You should take it in to a mechanic with a diesel timing light and get the timing set before you do any more trouble shooting. Those timing marks are only good for the stock injector pump (but close enough to get you running if you replace it).

+1
Even tho the "hash marks" are lined, does not mean that THIS pump is properly in time. The IP can be tuned just like a distributor fired engine. I hope that this is your problem.

 

[06streetrod]

frago #1

i was expecting to go to gordon in september for school, and i wanted to have this ready for the 16hr trip from hood. i figured i had ample time, but... got a message today that i'll be going the 2nd wk of may instead. after sitting and thinking a while, i think i'm going to leave it behind and spend the summer stocking up on rebuild parts instead.

anyone have any recommendations on kits or specific upgrades?

FYI.... i did take it on the highway today just to see how it rolled. trip lasted about 45 min. "white diesel smoke" never cleared up, and i had an extremely slow take off speed. slow enough to clearly see dirty looks from poeple trying to pass me while making their way through my nbc cloud. top speed downhill was 65, top speed up hill was 40.

was thinking about stripping it and pulling everything before i leave.

 

[jrou111]

Just take it to a diesel mechanic and get it timed. It won't take alot of time to do and it'll be a night and day difference driving.

 

[06streetrod]

i made a bunch of calls all morning looking for a place to get the timing done with no luck. the bigger name brand chain stores don't have anyone qualified to do that type of work on a diesel, and won't do anything more than part swaps. the smaller shops don't carry the equipment to do the check, and neither do the parts stores for me to rent one. one of the guys at a small shop i talked to actually got a lil rude and told me i had no idea what i was talking about, that there was no diesel timing light.

i'm still just thinking about starting the rebuild now. i knew i would eventually be doing it, i just hoped i could squeeze a couple years out of it. there's just too much wrong with it for me to get it ready for that long of a trip in this short of a notice.

 

[jrou111]

No you need to find a shop that specializes in or ONLY works on diesel rigs, tractors, etc. Most pep boys, firestone, name brand stores aren't going to have the equipment and know how.

Just a quick google search showed Killeen Diesel Service on Fort Hood st ( 254) 628-2767, or this place in San Antonio http://www.dieselinjection.com/

And two more:


Hamilton Diesel Service‎

- Write a review
10806 W State Highway 29, Liberty Hill, TX‎ - (512) 778-6150‎

Website‎ - Directions‎


Trey's Fuel Injection‎

- Write a review
445 Enterprise Blvd, Hewitt, TX‎ - (254) 666-0016‎



You can also check this site for one nearby http://www.truckdown.com/momex/NavCode/service.providers/ServType/ENG/RegionCode/TX/Description/Engine

 

[gunboy1656]

Well from the description of where you are and where your going, I will assume you have a few motorpool guys you can offer a beer (or 2) to and get some help.

 

[06streetrod]

update

well, i got in touch with the only shop within a reasonable driving distance that even has the equip to work on or test my ip, and where everyone referred me to, which was trey's (thanks jrou, that's actually who i had test my injectors. don't know why i ddn't think to go back to them). i also talked to diesel care, whom i got the pump from. they both told me if it was the pump timing, i should be able to advance or retard it and that would atleast make a noticeable difference, if not fix the problem. if the pump timing was any more off than that it would not be running, or the drive shaft in it would be off 180degrees, in which case it would definately not be running. if this did not fix it, they both said it's not the ip and recommended i do a compression test. sooooo.........

i did just that, and it actually made it worse when i moved the ip either way.

i guess i will be going to the parts store after all and renting the gauge for the compression test.

anymore ideas? anyone? please? i'm starting to get bummed out.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Also sounds like pump timing to me. The diesel places don't use a 'timing light' per se (which is why they said it sounded like you "didn't know what you were talking about") but instead use a gadget that senses the injector pulse on No. 1 which indicates the injector has reached pop-off pressure (i.e., 'firing' as if it were spark plug.) You then rotate the pump body until the injector firing takes place when it should. The only way anyone ever times these now is via this type of dynamic method, and any local shop that specializes in Standayne/ Roosamaster type injector pumps or has ever worked on 6.2s and 6.5s or anything similar should be able to do it. Just drop it off to one of them and say you want your pump timing set. Don't get to them engage in any troubleshooting over the phone. I had two trucks here that had their pumps replaced and both needed the timing done despite the fact the hash marks were lined up.

That said, there's a known problem with the Cold Advance Valve on those injector pumps. The Cold Advance Valve is the black thing that screws into the radiator-end of your injector pump and has a hose clamped to the end of it. In the top of the injection pump there's a solenoid which is supposed to engage when the engine is in a cold-start condition, and should turn off once the engine is warmed up (there's also a fast-idle solenoid mounted on the exterior which also ups the throttle during cold-starts and also goes off once the engine is warm.) Sometimes those things stay on when they shouldn't (i.e., 12V always present at the terminal), and sometimes another thing happens which I'll detail below.

The valve itself gums up. Badly. On the earlier pumps and some of the NOS ones the military had kicking around, there was some counterweight retainer or similar in the body of the pump which worked great with the old fuel, but which began to disintegrate thanks to the additives which began to show up in modern diesel. The degeneration evidenced itself as little black specs which would then travel into the Cold Advance Valve (a little glass ball with a spring in a tube) and gum it up to the point it never fully opened or closed. When that happens you get no power, lots of white smoke/unburnt diesel, and can have some real fun when trying to accelerate to get into traffic or what-have-you when you suddenly have next to no throttle response. Two-three CUCVs have done it to me, and the valve was pooched in each.

A new pump should come with a new valve BUT some come with the little blue plastic plugs in them and get you to take all that stuff off your old pump for reinstallation on the new before sending the old one back as a core (if applicable.) IF you used the Cold Advance Valve off your old pump -- go get yourself a brand new one and bury the old one in a very, very, deep hole or pitch it off a handy bridge.

Again, a) first make sure your Cold Advance Valve is new (i.e., came with the pump;
b) take it to a place capable of doing diesel timing. Don't even talk it over with them or troubleshoot or anything else. Car keys - open door - start - drive there - drop it off. Seriously.

Hope that helps. All the above has been learned very, very painfully over the course of working on these.