Are parts of the future MV hobby dying?

[sigo]

You can own an M2, there just aren't enough to go around, and they're expensive. When is the last time a homicide was committed with a legal M2? Never. Let's lower the bar and ask how many homicides were committed with any legal MG since 1934? The answer is two. Yet they are still regulated almost to death. I don't want this to turn to second amendment debate, but others made the comparison to MVs, so I used the same example. How about crimes with legal armored military vehicles? Probably none.

It doesn't take an accident or crime to get something banned, and in my opinion fear of illogical bans shouldn't make us fear lobbying for greater public release of MVs. I don't have an issue with private armored vehicles, and I fail to see any logical argument against release to the public. No need you say? That argument can be applied to most hobbies or any historic vehicle preservation for that matter. Unsafe you say? Again, same argument can be applied, and doubly so for modern automobiles.

It kills me to see so much waste when current MVs are cut up or crushed for scrap. That incredible waste of taxpayer dollars is the real crime here.

 

[Mercunimog404]

You can own an M2, there just aren't enough to go around, and they're expensive. When is the last time a homicide was committed with a legal M2? Never. Let's lower the bar and ask how many homicides were committed with any legal MG since 1934? The answer is two. Yet they are still regulated almost to death. I don't want this to turn to second amendment debate, but others made the comparison to MVs, so I used the same example. How about crimes with legal armored military vehicles? Probably none.

It doesn't take an accident or crime to get something banned, and in my opinion fear of illogical bans shouldn't make us fear lobbying for greater public release of MVs. I don't have an issue with private armored vehicles, and I fail to see any logical argument against release to the public. No need you say? That argument can be applied to most hobbies or any historic vehicle preservation for that matter. Unsafe you say? Again, same argument can be applied, and doubly so for modern automobiles.

It kills me to see so much waste when current MVs are cut up or crushed for scrap. That incredible waste of taxpayer dollars is the real crime here.

Hear hear.

 

[M925]

Has anyone noticed the diminishing of 5 tons on GL lately? There seems to be fewer and fewer......

 

[dmetalmiki]

certainly

Well here in the U.K. that is a fact. And the reason?..No insurence for people UNDER 25!!! and most insurence companies make that 30 for historic or vintage vehicles. Get this..a 17 year (to 29) can not drive a land rover (or jeep ( historic or vintage)) but CAN drive a (''**n) Gamma Goat or (20 ton Scammell and the like) as an industrial tractor!..AT...16!! on "L" plates unacompnied.
THAT effectively prevents any young blood coming into the hobby or keeping up an interest with all other the other commitments that accrue in early later life.
And if you leave a collection (any size) at a respectable retirement age to them, then you are Long dead and buried before they can enjoy partake or make of full use of them!. Now THAT Sucks. Big time. (oh and Yes, you CAN drive any or all of the above, Including Full commercial ( paid employment) at age 17 anywhere in the E.U. Just NOT England. Yeah its Supposed to be "one rule for all" <when it suits!!>

 

[Al Harvey]

Has anyone noticed the diminishing of 5 tons on GL lately? There seems to be fewer and fewer......

A lot of them are being diverted to PDs and FDs who are getting them. Sooner rather then later they will dry up on GL just like the dueces have.

 

[emmado22]

Not THAT many of them are going to PD/FD's...

 

[Al Harvey]

Actually a good number really are. Our local PD just got two of them in case of floods and when I went by DRMO yesterday another expandable van 5 ton was destined for a PD. The risk of floods and natural disasters is getting a lot of PDs to look at the 5 ton to get supplies in and evacuate people.

 

[sigo]

Well here in the U.K. that is a fact. And the reason?..No insurence for people UNDER 25!!! and most insurence companies make that 30 for historic or vintage vehicles. Get this..a 17 year (to 29) can not drive a land rover (or jeep ( historic or vintage)) but CAN drive a (''**n) Gamma Goat or (20 ton Scammell and the like) as an industrial tractor!..AT...16!! on "L" plates unaccompanied.

Wow. No auto insurance at all if you're under 25? So if you're under 25 how does it work, can you drive at all? No off road vehicles at all until the age of 30? TV tax, no firearms, no knives… Did the push to get glass banned from pubs ever gain any headway? I remember reading about that a couple years ago. At least you all have more armored vehicles and your gov't still sells them to you.

 

[emmado22]

as compared to the 1000's that have been released, and the 1000's to be released, the PD/FD ones are a very small number...

 

[M925]

All I know is I've wasted a lot of time staring at my computer and over the past year I have seen fewer and fewer 5 tons coming up for auction. But I was hoping that you guys with more experience could calm my troubled soul. I still want a m932 tractor. But only one in the next four weeks in CA.

Do you think the days of 5 tons are nearly over? Or are we going through a cycle, with more trucks for sale in the spring?

 

[TehTDK]

Well here in the U.K. that is a fact. And the reason?..No insurence for people UNDER 25!!! and most insurence companies make that 30 for historic or vintage vehicles. Get this..a 17 year (to 29) can not drive a land rover (or jeep ( historic or vintage)) but CAN drive a (''**n) Gamma Goat or (20 ton Scammell and the like) as an industrial tractor!..AT...16!! on "L" plates unacompnied.
THAT effectively prevents any young blood coming into the hobby or keeping up an interest with all other the other commitments that accrue in early later life.
And if you leave a collection (any size) at a respectable retirement age to them, then you are Long dead and buried before they can enjoy partake or make of full use of them!. Now THAT Sucks. Big time. (oh and Yes, you CAN drive any or all of the above, Including Full commercial ( paid employment) at age 17 anywhere in the E.U. Just NOT England. Yeah its Supposed to be "one rule for all" <when it suits!!>

I live in denmark and I am pretty sure Gamma Goats etc are NOT legal here . A Scammell would be classed as a truck here as it weighs in over 3,500 kilos. And the Gamma Goat, isn't that partly a "forklift" with forks or is it me that remembers wrong. Here its 16 or so for Tractors and small "scooters/Moped" and you have to be at least 18 before you can start on car license, Motorbike license etc, while stuff like HGV/Bus etc has to wait till you are 20+ unless you are a part of the police, armed forces or etc.

And here you can get insurance at 18, its just extremely expensive unless you own a cheap beater with a small engine. I mean the last car I had was close to 1,000 EUR for 3 part insurance only for a car that was close to 16 years old.

But at this rate my first MV is going to be an old Reco/Messenger motorbike or a retired GD from the danish armed services.

 

[Milspec33]

As to the future...unless we make our expectations and desires known to the government repeatedly, we only have ourselves to blame. Get involved with local MV groups, museums and the MVPA. We all have one important thing in common, we love the vehicles and equipment made for military use. Quite a few in the hobby are veterans and we can also use that avenue to lobby. Every time we drive our vehicles or participate in a rally we act as ambassadors for OUR love of MVs.
Keep the faith,
ARK

 

[saddamsnightmare]

January 27th, 2014.

Gents:


As to the comments up above vis a vis the HMMWV being overrated, I have towed a couple out with the S404.114 when they stick, and I can climb over stuff most H-1 or M series wouldn't dream about doing. But realistically, it is a much lousier pickup truck then any of the Unimogs from the S to the U series. Just an opinion. I say let every man that wants an H-1 have it, just tax by weight & horsepower, that should clean them up. At least the Unimogs evolved from farm tractors and most can do more work then most similar sized farm tractors or pickup trucks, based on experience. We are still lucky to have what we do, be careful for what you wish for, and hope no fools go out and have a really visible accident. Uncle can change demil codes on US equipment quicker then sin.

 

[Mercunimog404]

January 27th, 2014.

Gents:


As to the comments up above vis a vis the HMMWV being overrated, I have towed a couple out with the S404.114 when they stick, and I can climb over stuff most H-1 or M series wouldn't dream about doing. But realistically, it is a much lousier pickup truck then any of the Unimogs from the S to the U series. Just an opinion. I say let every man that wants an H-1 have it, just tax by weight & horsepower, that should clean them up. At least the Unimogs evolved from farm tractors and most can do more work then most similar sized farm tractors or pickup trucks, based on experience. We are still lucky to have what we do, be careful for what you wish for, and hope no fools go out and have a really visible accident. Uncle can change demil codes on US equipment quicker then sin.

I'm glad you're back to your Unimog posts

 

[Rickv100]

The Government lawyers will never allow anything out. One lawsuit on a accident in an MRAP and they will all be cutup. Do not start with Hold Harmless Agreements any lawyer will find a hole.

Easier to turn back into scrap metal.

Rick

 

[saddamsnightmare]

March 31st, 2014.

The agreement I noted above was from the U.S.Attorney General and conferred the U.S.Government's exception to the Federal Highway Safety Standards to the M series then in service. It did not confer such exemptions on the HMMWV or later vehicles. The M series only had to meet the U.S.Government contract specifications, which they did, or they would not have been accepted into U.S. service. Uncle inherited the King's rights in many things.

 

[Al Harvey]

Okay, so something I just saw on the news today got me thinking about this thread again. They were discussing the guy in Dallas who use an armored van to shoot at the police. While this is a horrific incident that doesn't directly relate to our hobby, the news brought us in to the national spotlight once again. Today they started showing the types of armored military vehicles like APCs that could be purchased via a popular auction site. They also showed a search light, that according to them would be used to blind a plane. While this nut job in Dallas has no relation to our hobby, he could have just affected our hobby by his horrible actions. This brings up the conversation once again, that if you do something stupid and Lord Forbid kill someone, you could cause backlash on our whole hobby. With the mindset of many people in our country today who want to over react to every circumstance, I think we need to pay due diligence to any laws that might be created quietly that could affect our hobby. Also keep focused on which private companies use their choices to stop supporting our hobby, I do believe you will see one site that is about to make major changes, but that is just my opinion as they might decide it was just a one time incident.

 

[sigo]

I didn't know the media took this and ran with it until Al posted. I had to search for the tie-in to our hobby. One source for the news referenced above is here: http://video.foxnews.com/v/42972783...intcmp=watchnow#sp=show-clips&v=4297278346001

I'll keep my political commentary to myself, but I will say this serves as an example of why we must do our utmost to be good stewards of the HMV hobby. The public simply does not understand why we choose to honor the past through preservation of historic military vehicles. We must take every opportunity to educate the public and keep the HMV hobby positive.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

The PRESUMPTION OF INTENT is the line that is most often crossed in establishing prejudices against FMVs as well as Firearms, Fireworks, many Medieval devices, and various HISTORIC weapons of all sorts.

In today's society, benign "collections" are now first viewed from the perspective of a threat by those fearfully vulnerable to feeling threatened. Hence, in some convoluted way, there is thrown up a "best defense is a strong offense" attitude, and the vulnerable are offended by even the most NON-threatening things all around them.

It is a sad decay of moral society that we are witnessing on a grand scale in these times.

It is not the hardware that is the threat, but the demented mind of the human maliciously employing it that must be subdued.

IMHO

Carry on.

 

[Al Harvey]

Chaplain that was great. I really like how you worded that and keep it politic free!