Robin33ba07
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http://unimogshop.com/ads/for-sale-...vkpP-Vjn7HWEUmBv_869vhnt983rmXrw54w7ooQs06hH0
the only issue it is located in Holland
the only issue it is located in Holland
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
are there any flu419's left?
- Thread starter SeeNebraska
- Start date
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I think it says New Jersey, but either way, it's not a FLU.
Robin33ba07
Member
- 77
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- 18
- Location
- Co. Meath ,Ireland
well its a Dutch auction site ?
Robin33ba07
Member
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Speedwoble
Well-known member
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- New Holland, PA
Prices don’t make sense anymore. 2 FLU’s in the classifieds for $12 & $13k. Yet one sold at auction last week with a SIEZED engine for $11K after fees.
peakbagger
Well-known member
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I agree entirely the market is dysfunctional for SEEs. I think its a combination of factors. A lot of folks where clueless on buying the at the auctions and are way over their heads on working on them. They bought them on a whim and then realize that its major commitment to get a running reliable SEE. There are also "flippers" out there who got a good deal at an auction and sold them to suckers who also may be in over their head. A lot of the suckers also don't realize the Ebay listing price is not the sold price. I see a lot of overpriced SEEs that get listed for high dollars but when I check the sold or competed listings I see they never sold or have been relisted. I also expect the listing gets pulled at the last minute and then is resold privately for a far lower price.
The guy I bought my 1300L from is quite knowledgeable about the Unimog market and suspect he even looks at the SEEs as a weird market. He used to import and deal with a lot of 406s and realizes that the 406s on the road tend to be beat up with rusted cabs and high miles. He can buy a SEE, strip the loader, backhoe, chassis bracing and swap out the springs and he has a deluxe version of 406 with low miles for far less then the going price for 406s. I think some of the European SEEs have been swapped over this way. Unfortunately the cab rot issues remain if road salt ever gets to it but a SEE cab that has been sitting in Texas for 25 years is going to be heck of a lot better than one that has been on the road.
The ones that were reconditioned and put out for sale without ever having been used are probably worth 25 K but expect the typical running SEE is at best 15K. I expect few sellers who got burned on one with major issues will admit to being burned and expect they will keep trying to sell them for what they have into them to a sucker rather than just taking the hit.
Unlike other vehicles there are few if any Unimog SEE expects out there to have a possible purchase checked over so a potential buyer is on their own and expect most folks including myself were in over my head. I think I got lucky and have since educated myself but I don't claim to be an expert.
The guy I bought my 1300L from is quite knowledgeable about the Unimog market and suspect he even looks at the SEEs as a weird market. He used to import and deal with a lot of 406s and realizes that the 406s on the road tend to be beat up with rusted cabs and high miles. He can buy a SEE, strip the loader, backhoe, chassis bracing and swap out the springs and he has a deluxe version of 406 with low miles for far less then the going price for 406s. I think some of the European SEEs have been swapped over this way. Unfortunately the cab rot issues remain if road salt ever gets to it but a SEE cab that has been sitting in Texas for 25 years is going to be heck of a lot better than one that has been on the road.
The ones that were reconditioned and put out for sale without ever having been used are probably worth 25 K but expect the typical running SEE is at best 15K. I expect few sellers who got burned on one with major issues will admit to being burned and expect they will keep trying to sell them for what they have into them to a sucker rather than just taking the hit.
Unlike other vehicles there are few if any Unimog SEE expects out there to have a possible purchase checked over so a potential buyer is on their own and expect most folks including myself were in over my head. I think I got lucky and have since educated myself but I don't claim to be an expert.
SpoiledSpud
Member
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- Northern (ID/WI)
I would say that the overall feeling from the SEE community has become increasingly negative over the past couple years. From issues people have had with their machine it's easy to become pessimistic about their purchase. As these became increasingly released into the wild we saw what appeared to be a decrease in the quality. The benefit of the "FLU Owners Thread" for me, was that it gave me a good checklist of things to watch out for as I searched for my SEE. It provided a general idea of what I was going to have to do to resolve those issues. So, thank you to all those that contributed to that thread.
To those that are searching for one, don't give up. Don't be discouraged to post on this site for advice, but also do your own homework before your purchase. Some folks will automatically assume that you purchased a huge piece of crap, but there are still good ones out there. Keep in mind that we don't see many posts from SEE owners that aren't having issues. Put the word out to your network that you're searching and a friend of a friend just may know of one. Or just buy one from Flu Farm I think he has a dozen or so.
Spud
To those that are searching for one, don't give up. Don't be discouraged to post on this site for advice, but also do your own homework before your purchase. Some folks will automatically assume that you purchased a huge piece of crap, but there are still good ones out there. Keep in mind that we don't see many posts from SEE owners that aren't having issues. Put the word out to your network that you're searching and a friend of a friend just may know of one. Or just buy one from Flu Farm I think he has a dozen or so.
Spud
lurkMcGurk
Member
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- Bangor,Maine
WELL said Peakbagger. I am in agreement with what i consider the rest of the SEE purchases and subsequent "dysfunctional" resales to be , commercial included!. A lot of people (myself) in over their head ( "shade tree mechanics" )when purchasing from G-Planet or elsewhere with regards to maintenance or sorting out SERIOUS issues. I paid a premium for two runners and got real lucky (No serious issues) with what I received! I would also say that the auction I bought from in early 2017 was the last, if not second to last one where multiple SEEs were available and in half decent shape.
From time to time they seem to come up in the Midwest or at C and C but little to nothing out here on the East Coast. I have been amazed at how most small issues self resolved in my case and how these machines really respond well to just being run. Again I think after reading through the threads it would appear some guys got the bad end of the stick and I can understand their frustration.
SpoiledSpud hit the nail on the head that I too think most owners that are not having problems probably spend more time running their machines than posting what is going wrong. Not a lot to talk about when things are going well! At least not in this thread I suppose. I have to believe that based on the amount of people that stop into my dooryard when the Mogs are out front WITHOUT for sale signs, the demand is still there. Also impressed at how fast I and others are probably accomplishing their respective projects. So to people still looking I would say as attached as I am to my machinery there comes a time when if I'm not using it I cant justify keeping it. As time goes on everyone who ones one except FLU Farm may actually sell back into the market. Keep plugging all!
From time to time they seem to come up in the Midwest or at C and C but little to nothing out here on the East Coast. I have been amazed at how most small issues self resolved in my case and how these machines really respond well to just being run. Again I think after reading through the threads it would appear some guys got the bad end of the stick and I can understand their frustration.
SpoiledSpud hit the nail on the head that I too think most owners that are not having problems probably spend more time running their machines than posting what is going wrong. Not a lot to talk about when things are going well! At least not in this thread I suppose. I have to believe that based on the amount of people that stop into my dooryard when the Mogs are out front WITHOUT for sale signs, the demand is still there. Also impressed at how fast I and others are probably accomplishing their respective projects. So to people still looking I would say as attached as I am to my machinery there comes a time when if I'm not using it I cant justify keeping it. As time goes on everyone who ones one except FLU Farm may actually sell back into the market. Keep plugging all!
pontiac62
Member
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- battle creek, mi
Cruise all the regular auction sites and or classified listings they come up but way less
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Man of few words
M1081 LVAD
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Man of few words
M1081 LVAD
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- The actual midwest, NM.
Hey, I'm down to a mere five, after having sold a SEE. Which I kind of regret.
And the one FLU I would consider selling is not a SEE, but it would be expensive.
Speedwoble
Well-known member
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- New Holland, PA
Yeah, I have been dumb and I have been lucky in FLU acquisitions. The first I paid $8k for and it had a cracked transmission. I ended up parting it out and still have a lot of parts left. The second was running and driving and I bought it off eBay for $7K because I recognized that it was cheaper than ones for Auction at the time. I feel like some people have the fetish that they have to buy at auction to get a good deal. The fact that one with a seized engine at auction sold for similar price to a running one in the classifieds seems to support that people think there is some magic to buying at auction.
- 3,342
- 1,329
- 113
- Location
- The actual midwest, NM.
It's better to be lucky than good, Speedwoble. My first SEE was clean and well equipped, but also pricey. The second one, meant to be a parts car, was quite cheap and turned out to be even better in many ways.
Between the two, I could've almost bought one from C&C. Since I have different uses for the two, I'm quite happy to have both rather than one with nice paint.
Between the two, I could've almost bought one from C&C. Since I have different uses for the two, I'm quite happy to have both rather than one with nice paint.
peakbagger
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The other aspect to consider is the dealers who sell Unimogs in general have stayed out of the military 419 market to some extent. If they do dabble in it they usually stick to the high end units and wait for a buyer that just wants to walk in and pay a premium for a "good" one. Those on the board for awhile may remember the drama associated with a HMMH from a dealer in Colorado which resulted in the dealer buying it back. It appears that that one is still listed on the dealer inventory. EI looks like they bought the US military inventory but they have only dabbled in sales, he did have an HMMH or two at one point. Vermont Unimog has rarely if ever listed 419s although given the lack of answering the phone or responding to e-mails I always wonder if they are far more of glossy website then an actual dealer. Unimog Center in NH who I bought my 1300L from has had one or two really nice ones that I suspect went directly from a total refurb to surplus but his concentration is on the SBU variants. He keeps one around for his personal use. C&C seems to be the most active but I suspect he just plays the auction game while it was good and probably either has personal experience from the military or someone who does.
Most of the large military bases have moved to the south and the depots to support them went south also. I believe the guy who bought mine bought it from a depot in VA early on in the surplus cycle. Many of the 419s in the northeast I have seen over the years have been from state surplus programs where the states get to buy or are given surplus military equipment. The problem with these units is the states rarely had trained mechanics and spares so they were run until they were no longer reliable and then parked until the next state auction. The alternative is that my pure speculation is that some folks have figured out how to game the state surplus system and get the units direct from the government.
Pretty much standard to the larger Unimog dealers is they would rather sit on inventory and get a serious buyer willing to pay a premium. The other standard is most want to sell them not fix them. They are complex vehicles and the only way to make a buck on service would be to have a well trained mechanic, the alternative is to have poorly trained one not familiar with the 419 and that sets things up for all sorts of bad feelings with a customer when the number of hours and delays getting parts add up to huge bills.
Most of the large military bases have moved to the south and the depots to support them went south also. I believe the guy who bought mine bought it from a depot in VA early on in the surplus cycle. Many of the 419s in the northeast I have seen over the years have been from state surplus programs where the states get to buy or are given surplus military equipment. The problem with these units is the states rarely had trained mechanics and spares so they were run until they were no longer reliable and then parked until the next state auction. The alternative is that my pure speculation is that some folks have figured out how to game the state surplus system and get the units direct from the government.
Pretty much standard to the larger Unimog dealers is they would rather sit on inventory and get a serious buyer willing to pay a premium. The other standard is most want to sell them not fix them. They are complex vehicles and the only way to make a buck on service would be to have a well trained mechanic, the alternative is to have poorly trained one not familiar with the 419 and that sets things up for all sorts of bad feelings with a customer when the number of hours and delays getting parts add up to huge bills.
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I have just bought one from an auction house in Holland called Troostwijk it is the 3rd on I have seen go through ,in the description it said running so I bid and won it yey ! The description failed to mention no brakes,leaking cylinder on back hoe and missing hose reel but genraly looks ok
lurkMcGurk
Member
- 55
- 17
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- Bangor,Maine
Good luck UniMatt, "running" may mean different things to different people but I too also figured at least the brakes would be good if one were to say Running.. Unless they are very literal and meant running but not Stopping! Either way take some pics and feel free to explain how complicated shipping from Holland to Portugal is because that must not be easy. I shipped from Texas to Maine here in the USA and that was difficult enough. Cheers!
Migginsbros
Well-known member
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Congrats, we are very satisfied with our SEE , it was recruited from a post in south Germany. Send some pic´s.
Greatings,
Migginsbros
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jstark45xd
New member
- 27
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- Gabbs, Nv
Mine is for sale in northern Nevada. Email me at jstark45xd@yahoo.com
patrol578
Member
- 107
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I believe I fall into a category which has been mentioned several times in this thread: those who have been out using their SEEs without too much trouble, lurking on this site more than than posting about issues they were having.
I read the entire SEE owners' thread a couple of times prior to winning an auction on GovPlanet in early 2017. We were getting ready to build a house, and my plan was to use the SEE to accomplish as much of the excavation and landscaping work as I could. Having run a vehicle maintenance shop in the Army in the not too distant past, I was not intimidated by having to track down parts, and knew how to use the various maintenance manuals. I was also well aware that the SEE I eventually took home would likely have a history of being ridden hard and put up wet. Add to that the effects of sitting several years under the hot Texas sun, supplemented by rat infestation, and it was virtually guaranteed that any wiring or parts made of rubber or plastic would be suspect, and of limited remaining lifespan. You could say I went into the purchase with open eyes.
At the time, there was still a good variety of SEEs coming up for auction every few months. I clearly recognized I would not be able to win a truck with the coveted RRAD Rebuild plate. I identified a few possible candidates from what remained, and eventually exchanged $8,400 for my "mid-life crisis" as my wife called it. Another bunch of cash and two weeks later, Wes Simpson delivered it to our homesite in western Massachusetts on a frigid Saturday morning.
With the exception of an air system problem which needed solving before she would build pressure, and the fuel lines which I completeley replaced, nearly everything worked, and most of what didn't came to life over time.
The following summer I logged the lot, using the SEE's hydraulic chainsaw exclusively to drop and limb the trees. The SEE got a workout skidding and stacking the logs, and digging up a couple of dozen stumps. Clearing the land uncovered a boulder which, like an iceberg, hid most of its mass out of sight. Too big to lift out of its hole by all but the largest excavator, the only option was to break it up. I bought a used hydraulic rock drill and a set of wedges and shims and many holes and hours later the job was done thanks to the SEE's hydraulic tool circuit.
Since our general contractor was not too keen on my unproven digging skills, we ended up hiring a couple of pros to excavate for the foundation and most of the utilities. The SEE got a few more chances to show its worth when it did all of the trenching work for our gas line, and for a water drain and 12x12x7 foot dry well.
During that time I replaced two hydraulic lines, a stabilizer cylinder, a male quick-disconnect hydraulic fitting, the batteries and starter. Over a year ago the rear wheels lost power (another story for another posting), but even with only front wheel drive, the SEE kept on working.
To date, the SEE has saved us about twice its initial cost in invoices related to the construction of our new home. Even including fees, initial transportation, additional hydraulic tools, and repair parts, we have come out well ahead.
That's not to say everything is perfect...just a couple of days ago, when breaking up the last few chunks of a dirt pile which I had unwisely allowed to freeze (while blocking our driveway). The SEE died without warning. All symptoms point to binding within the transmission...not good.
Patrol578
I read the entire SEE owners' thread a couple of times prior to winning an auction on GovPlanet in early 2017. We were getting ready to build a house, and my plan was to use the SEE to accomplish as much of the excavation and landscaping work as I could. Having run a vehicle maintenance shop in the Army in the not too distant past, I was not intimidated by having to track down parts, and knew how to use the various maintenance manuals. I was also well aware that the SEE I eventually took home would likely have a history of being ridden hard and put up wet. Add to that the effects of sitting several years under the hot Texas sun, supplemented by rat infestation, and it was virtually guaranteed that any wiring or parts made of rubber or plastic would be suspect, and of limited remaining lifespan. You could say I went into the purchase with open eyes.
At the time, there was still a good variety of SEEs coming up for auction every few months. I clearly recognized I would not be able to win a truck with the coveted RRAD Rebuild plate. I identified a few possible candidates from what remained, and eventually exchanged $8,400 for my "mid-life crisis" as my wife called it. Another bunch of cash and two weeks later, Wes Simpson delivered it to our homesite in western Massachusetts on a frigid Saturday morning.
With the exception of an air system problem which needed solving before she would build pressure, and the fuel lines which I completeley replaced, nearly everything worked, and most of what didn't came to life over time.
The following summer I logged the lot, using the SEE's hydraulic chainsaw exclusively to drop and limb the trees. The SEE got a workout skidding and stacking the logs, and digging up a couple of dozen stumps. Clearing the land uncovered a boulder which, like an iceberg, hid most of its mass out of sight. Too big to lift out of its hole by all but the largest excavator, the only option was to break it up. I bought a used hydraulic rock drill and a set of wedges and shims and many holes and hours later the job was done thanks to the SEE's hydraulic tool circuit.
Since our general contractor was not too keen on my unproven digging skills, we ended up hiring a couple of pros to excavate for the foundation and most of the utilities. The SEE got a few more chances to show its worth when it did all of the trenching work for our gas line, and for a water drain and 12x12x7 foot dry well.
During that time I replaced two hydraulic lines, a stabilizer cylinder, a male quick-disconnect hydraulic fitting, the batteries and starter. Over a year ago the rear wheels lost power (another story for another posting), but even with only front wheel drive, the SEE kept on working.
To date, the SEE has saved us about twice its initial cost in invoices related to the construction of our new home. Even including fees, initial transportation, additional hydraulic tools, and repair parts, we have come out well ahead.
That's not to say everything is perfect...just a couple of days ago, when breaking up the last few chunks of a dirt pile which I had unwisely allowed to freeze (while blocking our driveway). The SEE died without warning. All symptoms point to binding within the transmission...not good.
Patrol578
- 3,342
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- The actual midwest, NM.
Glad to hear that you, too, got use and some fun (I hope) out of your SEE.
Like with most older vehicles, there will be some tinkering along the way, but now it sounds like you're in for some more serious work.
Looking forward to learning from your experiences with the drive train.
Like with most older vehicles, there will be some tinkering along the way, but now it sounds like you're in for some more serious work.
Looking forward to learning from your experiences with the drive train.
lurkMcGurk
Member
- 55
- 17
- 8
- Location
- Bangor,Maine
I bet several people that do not have major issues spend time Lurking in the threads both prior too and during ownership. I know I did. It is a great resource for folks like me with less experience on the mechanical side of things. Show some pics of the work if you get a chance! Also PICS of any necessary work you unfortunately now seem to have on your FLU. Very COOL you got your $ worth even if its no go time on a major repair!!! (that's a deal) also, a dead SEE could be very well be the opening to a semi lucrative SEE parts business for US New Englanders, good luck.