ARRGGGGGHHHHHH! Tire frustration!

[Elwenil]

A bubble balancer is a cheap way to balance tires yourself. One of the local garages is still in 1970s mode as they are an old Exxon station with the attached service garage that is still in use. sort of rare these days but they would mount stuff for me when I was younger and not able to get it done myself. Apparently they still do it as a friend had his snow tires mounted on the rear of his truck last week for a grand total of $12 for mounting and bubble balancing. They won't mount on custom rims as they have an old Coats tire changer but for $6 a tire it's a good deal. Larger shops have a lot more to deal with and can't afford the hassles and risks with dealing with oddball jobs. The dealership I worked for was very strict about what could be done and it was mostly all "by the book" due to liability. A dealership is a big business to lose because someone wanted to do a customer a favor in the shop.

You really can't blame the shop for wanting to protect themselves. It is true that they deal with "idiots" and they probably think you are one of them because it's not worth the legal fees and hassles to risk it. Your $100 of profit before costs doesn't compare to the thousands of dollars in losses to fight one lawsuit from such an "idiot". Randy is also correct in stating that the disclaimers are next to useless. Similar to locks that only keep out honest thieves, disclaimers only discourage the uncommitted complainer who isn't really willing to back up his threats with court action. Even if the lawsuit is frivolous, a lawyer will certainly take the case and take it to court which means the business must hire a lawyer to fight it even if a judge throws it out. The lawyers still have to be paid even though it all fell apart and all it ends up being is a big loss even though the shop may not have done anything wrong and not been found liable in a case.

 

[Alex400]

Do you have another truck? What i did with my tires on my truck, is i brought the rims to the shop in the back of a pickup and said i want such and such a tire mounted on these rims. they didn't ask me anymore than the rig type they were going on and i was out the door.

 

[sturkopp]

I had my tires mounted in a small crusty shop specialized in agricultural stuff.
I purchased my tires by Internet and told him i couldn´t find anyone having a changer that´s big enough so thats why I went to him. He felt honoured and I got the 4 mounted and balanced for 30$ (yes, all 4 not each !!!)

 

[DaveP]

the guys around here do my 1600 20's for $15.00

 

[hobie237]

I think $30 a tire is fair. Labor rate is probably around $80+ an hour and from the time the truck is lifted to remove the wheels till it was lowered when the job was done I'm sure it would be over an hour.

An hour to do four tires? Really? It's never taken anywhere close to that for any of the sets I've had mounted. Maybe an hour from the time I walk in, tell them what I want, sit in the waiting room for them to bring the vehicle in, have them do the work, get me in the waiting room, have me pay the bill, and for me to get back in and drive away. Maybe.

Even if it did take an hour (that sounds like they're taking the lugs of by hand, slowly), $30 each would total $120, so by your estimate of an $80/hour labor rate, we're talking about an hour and a half. Yeah, right.

bring em up here. I'll mount them for you. And teach you how then you wont have this prob again.

If you were closer I wouldn't think twice about it, but it's far enough for me to think twice before heading up there. Appreciate the offer, though, may still take you up on it.

Hobie, since I don't know you I don't assume you know nothing, but there are two sides of the fence, and the side I am on could result in my losing everything I own if I make a choice to listen to a customer over my years of experience.

People can and do sue one another over some pretty petty stuff these days, and it isn't something I or most other shop owners are willing to take on. They don't have a legal defense fund, and I doubt most of them are incompetent. They sound to me like they are in the CYOA mode at that point.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the shops have to cover their own butts. It just irritates me, since I'm paying for the sins of idiots who aren't me. I understand the shops have no way to make the distinction, but it still irritates me, because I'm stuck with the results and it ain't my fault.

As far as the idea of shops "getting with it" in regards to installing internet tires, I don't see it happening. Again, there is the loss of a sale, which hits the bottom line, labor to deal with something that isn't their product, and liability for a product that wasn't supplied by the shop in question. All the disclaimers and signed confessions in the world can still be run through by a sharp lawyer faster than you can say lawsuit.

People buy tires (used and new alike) online every day. Lots of them. Why? Because a lot of the local shops just aren't competitive with their prices. So the local shops have already lost the sales, 100% their own fault. Once they've already lost the sale, they can make some money on the mounting and balancing, or nothing at all. It appears many prefer nothing at all.

Again, I can understand the hesitation on used tires. Honestly, though, the set I have I could pass off as new without question. They aren't close to out of date, they're not worn, they're not dryrotted, they're not damaged in any way. They still have almost all the little nubby thingies from the molding process.

Your best bet in any situation like this is to do it yourself, then you won't be at the shop's mercy. You can then purchase a tire changer, air compressor, jack, jack stands, tire irons, and any other necessary equipment, at your own expense and spend your time and labor to do them.

The only piece of equipment you've named that I don't have is a tire changer. The tires I've mounted before by hand were done with tire irons, back when I was building race cars. When we'd go through 5 sets of tires in a good practice weekend, it helped to mount them by hand, but those were lower profile, on aluminum and mag wheels, and we mounted them ourselves both to save some money, and because twice shops mounting the tires managed to bend the expensive wheels ($300 or so each) so we got sick of dealing with it.

 

[swyne]

Just a quick story. I purchased a M1028 earlier this summer. Bought it from the west coast. I wanted a rust free truck. I live in NY. So I bought it with the trust of another member ( in which I won't say) stating that the tires were NEW!!. So I get the truck give a quick look over and park it in the yard. A week later I bring it in the shop and a friend of mine noticed a curving of the tire. I said wow that doesn't look good? Get looking, and it was what you see in the pics. Get looking at the other one and I've one more doing the same thing. So I send an email out to the guy and wouldn't you know? No answer!
Go figure. He got his money and the truck is gone. So doing a little research. EVERY tire ment for highway use will have a DOT CODE = date code manufacture code, what plant it came from what kind of tire and a size code. It only has to be on one side of a tire or it may be on both That tire you see in the pics is dated 1987. It was made in the 10 week of 1987. I have one dated 1996 on the truck. The other 3 were "87. Generally the last 2 numbers in the circle portion of the numerics is the year, a few tire companies even code that as well. But do a little reasearch. they say you shouldn't be running anything more than 6 years old do to weathering and other factors. For more info go to http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11. There are many sights to retreive this kind of info from. So be aware. Oh BTW I parked the truck and 2 days later and it blew. Sounded like a gun going off. It was sitting in the hot sun. scared the daylights out of me. I was just 20 feet away getting ready to mow the lawn. Later!!

 

[Chevytruck]

wow thats lucky!

at least you were not on the road when that happened

 

[papercu]

So doing a little research

You didn't need to go far to find the info. Wayne
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=21256&highlight=tire+code and
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=9138

 

[jim-m35a2]

As a shop owner (motorcycle) and a tech for 20+ years (automotive) I have to say I agree with most of these shops.

First, I won't mount a tire I didn't sell because I don't know the source and how old it is, or what damage may have occurred, visible or not. Not a risk I am willing to assume, as it always winds up "not being my fault" with the customer.

Second, $30 a tire is too cheap for me to screw with tires that may be rusted to the rim, or a pain to remove, then dispose of. (which by the way in VA we have to charge for disposal by law even if you take the old tires with you)

Third, I wouln't risk my skin standing over a used tire while it seats on a bead of a questionable fitment.

Fourth, I certainly wouldn't go to all that trouble to then mount them back on a vehicle that they wouldn't clear the fenders on. That just sounds like a bad idea all around.

Fifth, by mounting your used tires, I just lost out on the sale of a set of tires and my bottom line took a hit, all for $120, and the loss of several profitable jobs I had to lay aside to attend to some used tires.

It just ain't worth it at all from a business standpoint.........

It is called "Customer Servise," Something you shop owners don't understand anymore.

Jim
________
Herbal vaporizer

 

[hobie237]

Just a quick story. I purchased a M1028 earlier this summer. Bought it from the west coast. I wanted a rust free truck. I live in NY. So I bought it with the trust of another member ( in which I won't say) stating that the tires were NEW!!. So I get the truck give a quick look over and park it in the yard. A week later I bring it in the shop and a friend of mine noticed a curving of the tire. I said wow that doesn't look good? Get looking, and it was what you see in the pics. Get looking at the other one and I've one more doing the same thing. So I send an email out to the guy and wouldn't you know? No answer!
Go figure. He got his money and the truck is gone. So doing a little research. EVERY tire ment for highway use will have a DOT CODE = date code manufacture code, what plant it came from what kind of tire and a size code. It only has to be on one side of a tire or it may be on both That tire you see in the pics is dated 1987. It was made in the 10 week of 1987. I have one dated 1996 on the truck. The other 3 were "87. Generally the last 2 numbers in the circle portion of the numerics is the year, a few tire companies even code that as well. But do a little reasearch. they say you shouldn't be running anything more than 6 years old do to weathering and other factors. For more info go to http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11. There are many sights to retreive this kind of info from. So be aware. Oh BTW I parked the truck and 2 days later and it blew. Sounded like a gun going off. It was sitting in the hot sun. scared the daylights out of me. I was just 20 feet away getting ready to mow the lawn. Later!!

Right, which is why it's a bad idea to run out of date tires. Which is one of the reasons I selected the nearly new set that I did.

 

[rattlecan6104]

If you have the clearance, I have a set of 37" toyo open country mud terrains mounted on black 8 lug rims I need to get rid of, only 2 years old, and have about 3000 miles on them. just pm me if interested.

 

[randyscycle]

It is called "Customer Servise," Something you shop owners don't understand anymore.

Jim

Not sure what you mean by customer service here. It isn't that I don't want to help anyone, its that I don't want the risk of a lawsuit because suddenly someone else's bad decision is now my fault. That is the whole point, here. And for the record, I do understand customer service. Having been in business nearly 10 years, I must be doing something correctly.

I've had folks stand in front of me at my counter and swear up and down that they won't hold me responsible for their poor choice, (see above story) only to get an angry call later for the exact thing they said and or promised they wouldn't do. In short, customers will lie just as quickly as some business owners will do the same. It sucks, but it is a fact of life, as human nature is what it is.

My choice of what I will and won't work on has nothing to do with customer service and everything to do with being very selective with whom I choose to do business. I am cordial, respectful, and very polite in my business dealings and run my business with integrity, so long as the customer in return shows me the same. If they come into my door and demand, threaten, or tell me how I will conduct the transaction, then they will not be welcome under my roof.

Many people tend to forget that the business owners also have a choice in the matter too, and if they don't like that fact, they can walk back out the same door in which they entered.

 

[Dave_McConnell]

Part of being successful in business is knowing when to walk away from a potential problem I mean job.

Dave McConnell 27 yrs as a mechanical contractor

 

[Wolf.Dose]

Tires and more

Hey guys,
there are some things to care for with tire change. And dealers most of the time know about these things.
First: Tire age: As mentioned above there is a code on each tire built after 1980. First they used a 3 digit number, the last three of the DOT number, These numbers say the week of manufacture and the year, f.e. 428, which means 42nd week of 1988. In the 90's they found out, that there are tires which are from the last decade, so they added a triangle behind the last three digits. F.e 092triangle, which means 9th week of 1992. In 2000 they changed again. Now the production date is 4 digits: 3304 which means 33rd week of 2004. These markings correspond to tire and rim and to ETRTO. Understanding this you should be able to determin the age of a tire.
However, a three year old tire is allowed to be sold as a new one. This is according to the regulations! Tire shops usually are not allowed to mount tires older than 7 years except the customer takes over the responsibility in full (written agreemnet required)!
Second: As well as tire and rim as ETRTO recommend wheel sizes for the tires. There is a standard measuring wheel size which is printed in the catalouges usually in bold. Side sizes are printed in nornal figures. Everything outside these rim sizes need a factory release for the specific application. F.e a 9.00-16 works only on a 6.5 " rim. 6" is possible but not recommended. 5.5" is very tricky and not approved. 7" is also ok, howerver not recommended for the tubes and the band protecting the tube from contact with the rim.
Third: Tire age in use, a nightmare for MV owners. Tire makers say, tires should not be over 7 year old for use. Normally we can not run down the tires in this period of time. And military tires of NDT are made for long storage and long non periodical use. I use 40 year old tires on a trailer without any problems, for there are no handling problems on a towed vehicle with propper TP.
Fourth: Our tire sizes in some sizes are not available on the market any more due to poor sales. However, for some sizes there is a need for new tires since years. If I look at the possible number of customers in Europe and the States there is estimated for some kind of vintage tire sizes a bussiness with 10000 to 20000 tires in the next 2 to 3 year to my oppinion only for the sizes 9.00-16 and 11.00-18 (off course this will make no tire maker rich! But it will give them a good reputation!). 9.00-20, 11.00-20 and 14.00-20 will be the next sizes to follow.
Wolf from Germany
motor vehicle expert

 

[hobie237]

Found a shop, recommended from a friend, who would mount them, no problem, for $25 each. Little hole in the wall shop that sells used tires (connected to a junkyard) and does mounting/balancing/patching, and that's about it. They balanced out pretty well, they're not lumpy or bumpy, they're not noisy or otherwise unruly, They're great, I'm happy with them. I had to do some minor persuasion of the front fenders with a hammer and some vice grips, I'll take a Sawzall to them in a couple weeks when I have a bit more time, but trimming needs are minimal.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Use a cutting blade on a grinder. Much nicer cut with less damage to the sheetmetal.

 

[hobie237]

You know, I thought about doing that. Then I realized I was out of cutoff wheels for my grinders. Just like I only had one dull metal blade left for the Sawzall. Thanks for the tip.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

I actually used both but I did a bit more than trim on mine. Short metal cutting blade makes quick work of behind the bumpers stuff without having to take the bumpers off.

 

[Elwenil]

Agreed, I used both a reciprocating saw and a air powered cutoff wheel to trim the fenders on my Ramcharger. Hell, I even used a jigsaw to bob the bed on my '74 W100 and it was the perfect tool for the job aside from a nibbler, which I didn't have. The reciprocating saw works good when there is nothing behind the panel you are cutting to get in the way of the blade and works fast. The cutoff wheel does a great job, but is slower and burns up the paint because of the heat. The two together are ideal for trimming fenders for clearance. I trimmed a bit more than most since I will eventually be running larger tires than the current 35" Boggers and most likely will be moving the front axle forward. The pics of my truck are in a thread titled "Ramcharger Project" or something similar in the Rides forum.

 

[corelokt]

I've a local shop, very pleasant, and they let me do the carrying to and from the machines. $7.50 a tire. Even so, I own one of the cheapo manual tire changers and a cheapo bead breaker, and a cheapo bubble balancer myself. They are all from harbor freight and they all work. The cheapo changer also makes seating the beads easier, as you can press the lower bead down onto the rim and then lift to help seal the upper enough to get the beads to pop.