Artisan's M916

[Artisan]

So we would need a COUNTER-CLOCKWISE or BI-DIRECTIONAL ALT correct?

 

[Artisan]

The parts cost to replace the 24V A/C motor type parts w/ 12V equivalents is;

2- Condenser Fans
1- Blower Motor
1- Fan Clutch Coil

...is going to be about $425.00 or so w/ shipping and I searched for best pricing.

The circuit breaker needs to be bigger, they recommend a 40A breaker
for the blower motor (it uses 31Amps) and they recommend a 25Amp
breaker for "a" condenser fan I think he said.


The unit has a 30Amp breaker now on the PS. SO I guess we need to replace it too
if this route were taken.

Did I say my brain hurts?

 

[NDT]

The parts cost to replace the 24V A/C motor type parts w/ 12V equivalents is;

2- Condenser Fans
1- Blower Motor
1- Fan Clutch Coil

...is going to be about $425.00 or so w/ shipping and I searched for best pricing.

The circuit breaker needs to be bigger, they recommend a 40A breaker
for the blower motor (it uses 31Amps) and they recommend a 25Amp
breaker for "a" condenser fan I think he said.


The unit has a 30Amp breaker now on the PS. SO I guess we need to replace it too
if this route were taken.

Did I say my brain hurts?

Likely the pressure switches and harnesses are also sized for the 24 volt ampacity. I think you are going to run into more cost converting the military kit into 12 volt than if you had bought a Red Dot civi universal application backwall A/C kit.

Personally I am going to side with reb87 and push the envelope on my Transformer-Rectifier. Reb87 reported in his post that the condenser fans rarely turn on and his truck has been problem free hauling crops for months. And well if my T-R burns up, I know the drill. As long as it does not happen at the NASA Space Center guardshack again.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Again???!!!

 

[R Racing]

Ahhhhhh that makes sence why his hasnt burned up yet he doesn't have enough freon to keep the fans running. He must have about 3 lbs in there to get it cycling.

 

[NDT]

Jeep: Yes, while I was getting badged in, the T-R commenced to smoking and security called base FD and they rolled every piece of apparatus on the site. It was BEYOND EMBARRASSING. By the time they rolled up, I had the batteries disconnected and the T-R was just simmering. I was asked to leave without my lowboy and told not to come back.


R Racing: Reb87 reports the same freeze-out problem you do so I think he's got plenty of charge. I think the fans only come on when the discharge pressure reaches a certain point, and the fans remove some more heat that is not dissipating by natural airflow.

 

[Artisan]

Thank You NDT, I guess if a guy could get the build plans and compare it could be nailed down.

The fans suck a lot of power for sure, almost 15Amps, I think I suggested a possible solution of
replacing just the Condenser fans from 24V to a 12V flavor in this thread past, with maybe a manual switch
or a relay that turns them on and they run as normal via some kind of
a 24V to 12V relay switch-a-thing-a-ma-bob. The fans can be had for about $87.00 EA

Another thought was to delete the OE 15Amp TR and replace it w/ a 60Amp
DC UP Converter, yes I said that right. They are made in 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and
75Amp flavors. So if a guy turned his OE ALT into a 160Amp ALT and grabbed a
60Amp DC Up Convertor you would end up 10Amps more than what you stared with
on the 12V side. I have a letter into Tech Support at American Power,
we shall see what they say.

Another thought is a DC Down Converter, so a use large 24V ALT and swap wiring.

As I said past, I am trying to learn and the more I look at and contemplate
different options the more I learn and I hope one day an epiphany will come
to light, hopefully an elegant, economical, solid physics solution.

American Powers website is awesome...check it out.

 

[NDT]

The DC up is the way to go. Have it dedicated to the A/C system (match amps). Leave the T-R in place. If the 12-24 up converter blows, well you ride hot. If you go through the pain of installing a 24 volt alt and a 24-12 down converter, if it blows, you are inop on the side of the road.

 

[Artisan]

We kinda need to know the AMP draw on the 12 side yes?

If I wanted to see how many amps the 12V side pulls I would obviously turn
on everything I could, then grab a DC Ammeter but what wire
would I put it around, the 12V #10A wire at the ALT ?

Hazards on.
Dash Fans on.
Work lights on.
Dome Light on.
Heater on high speed.
Headlights on high beams.
Accessories plugged into my 12V accessory outlet and GPS and phone plugged in w/ low batteries.
Have the wife hit the steering wheel horn, cigar lighter, and put it in reverse w/ the backup alarm on when ready.

 

[Artisan]

The DC up is the way to go. Have it dedicated to the A/C system (match amps). Leave the T-R in place. If the 12-24 up converter blows, well you ride hot. If you go through the pain of installing a 24 volt alt and a 24-12 down converter, if it blows, you are inop on the side of the road.

Interesting... So leave the OE ALT and TR alone and add a 20Amp DC UP Converter to the 12V side.
Which brings me to post #109 to calc that route.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Condenser fans should not run constantly. They should cycle. Same with the compressor.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Jeep: Yes, while I was getting badged in, the T-R commenced to smoking and security called base FD and they rolled every piece of apparatus on the site. It was BEYOND EMBARRASSING. By the time they rolled up, I had the batteries disconnected and the T-R was just simmering. I was asked to leave without my lowboy and told not to come back.


R Racing: Reb87 reports the same freeze-out problem you do so I think he's got plenty of charge. I think the fans only come on when the discharge pressure reaches a certain point, and the fans remove some more heat that is not dissipating by natural airflow.

Did you ever get your lowboy? That is really terrible timing.

 

[R Racing]

I don't know that I agree with that. If you look at a normal ac be it home or truck if the demand is there for cold . Than the compressor is on and so are the fans til the demand is met. The reason for cycling is the pressure switch is going out on low due to low freon pressure in the system isn't enough . Watch the gauges when it's operating and you will see when the compressor kicks in the presure that shouldn't go below 35-40 goes to 20 and the low pressure switch then turns the compressor and fans off. Then when the presure equilazes and lts back above the low pressure then they both cycle on again. If there was a thermostat than that to could shut it off and on . But it's not set up to have varying temperature.

 

[NDT]

RRacing is correct, the compressor does not cycle on this setup because there is no thermostat in the cab. If the compressor cuts out, it is doing so because of low pressure protection switch.

Jeep, yes, Wehring came to my rescue and fetched the trailer for me. He is badged and went through a different gate!

Artisan: The DC up converter will use a little more than twice the 24V amps, ie if the A/C uses 22 amps @ 24 volts (I think so), the 12 volt demand will be 44 amps. The 85 amp alternator should carry that, including lighting load. Heater and defrost fans would not be running.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Roger that, wasn't aware there was no thermostat on this setup. On the other hand, on the voltage and loading problem, why not use a relay for the condenser fans and use one voltage to energize the coil and run the other voltage through the contacts. Change out the condenser fans to whatever suits you and run it on a relay with the improper voltage just closing the contacts. I'm saying it this way because I'm confused about which voltage is for what and which need to be changed to where on here. But I hope you get the idea of what I'm saying.

 

[Artisan]

I see 2 tempting ALT's on Ebay sold in the past 24Hours.

If you are reading this and you bought one of those for an M915 series truck good luck.

Those things are TWO INCHES bigger in diameter than what is stock!

If they didn't ship yet you might want to reconsider, been there, investigated that.

 

[Tornadogt]

I am leaning towards copying R Racing's setup (I have not found a 200 amp 24V alternator at good price yet). or a Duel Alternator setup not sure how to make that work or how to equalize the batteries yet though.. I am not in any rush, so you guys do all the Research and Development work and I will just copy your hard work. Thank you in advance

 

[R Racing]

Lol I'll post the schematic soon it's easy. Another thought. Although not heavy duty a car style 200 amp 1 wire alternator are extremely cheap. And will fit with ease. I have 1 on my m925a1 not sure how much belt load they will take. BUT there everywhere and cheap. Use it with a equilizer and 2 auto rest over loads and ur set

 

[Tornadogt]

Lol I'll post the schematic soon it's easy. Another thought. Although not heavy duty a car style 200 amp 1 wire alternator are extremely cheap. And will fit with ease. I have 1 on my m925a1 not sure how much belt load they will take. BUT there everywhere and cheap. Use it with a equilizer and 2 auto rest over loads and ur set

But are the car style 200amp 1wire alternators 24V?? That I haven't found cheap yet. Or are you suggesting using a 12V alternator?

 

[R Racing]

12v and use a step up battery equalizer.