Axle and WMS Questions

[cosmic339]

Hello everyone, haven't been on here for a while. Finally going to get started on my project next Month. I decided that i want to order both axle for the front and rear. They would both be dana 60s . I figured I would try to keep as much of the original look of the truck. Today i was able to measure the distance between the center of the leaf spring to the center of the leaf spring and got 29"inches. When i called to order the axles i still need the WMS to WMS. Right now im unable to get a accurate measurement ( taking the wheels off, the truck is still buried in snow). I wanted to know

Does anyone know the actual WMS to WMS?

Im going to be fitting custom Humvee wheels, I read that I should order the axle's 4 inches wider than the WMS measurement so I have room to play with. I dont want the width to look wider than stock, would like to keep close to the stock width.

for the drive-train im going with a 4bt , nv4500 and np205 married setup . the gears will be 4.10. Have a bit of money to spend on this project.

Here is my current picture.

Any information would be great.

 

[steve6x6x6]

The chevy dana 60 front is 69 1/4" wms to wms. I would not use a dana 60 rear, axle shafts are junk.

 

[cosmic339]

The chevy dana 60 front is 69 1/4" wms to wms. I would not use a dana 60 rear, axle shafts are junk.

Would the 14 bolt be any different? Do you know what is the WMS for the M37? Thanks

 

[steve6x6x6]

The 14 bolt is alot better than the dana 60 rear with 30 spline. The front and rear from the M1008 is a good set. The rear is 67" wms to wms. I do not know what the M37 axle are on width. Do you know what the width is on the M37 axles?

 

[cosmic339]

No I haven't got a chance to take the tires of to get a good measurement of WMs of the m37. The axles from the m1008 are not just bolt on if I remember correctly you have to move the perches to the outboard side of the frame on the truck. I didn't want to do that, I figured I get them shortened so there no major frame modification and it's more of a drop in, I hope I didn't lose anyone

 

[steve6x6x6]

Need the wms to wms on the stock axles and the spring pad centers front and rear. Narrowing a front and rear is no problem.

 

[cosmic339]

When narrowing the axles is it necessary to add 4 inches to give me more of a selection for tires and rims, I can make up the difference with back spacing and offsetting

 

[nattieleather]

You are ordering axles? Then you can give them the spring perch location measurements etc right? Remember on the dana 60 front the passenger side spring perch is part of the diff. housing. It isn't movable. The front they will have to shorten the drivers side to fit right under the truck. The rear the spring perches will have to be moved out by like 3/8th of an inch. It's a small amount but I don't remember exactly the measurement.

And yes if you don't modify the axle then you have to move the passenger side spring to outside the frame.

 

[cosmic339]

You are ordering axles? Then you can give them the spring perch location measurements etc right? Remember on the dana 60 front the passenger side spring perch is part of the diff. housing. It isn't movable. The front they will have to shorten the drivers side to fit right under the truck. The rear the spring perches will have to be moved out by like 3/8th of an inch. It's a small amount but I don't remember exactly the measurement.

And yes if you don't modify the axle then you have to move the passenger side spring to outside the frame.

Correct I'am ordering axles, i measured the distance of the perch spring locations , and from center spring perch to center spring perch for the front its 29" inches. Still have to measure the rear, and measure the rim and WMS to WMS for both axles, so that I order the correct sizes. Thanks for that information though ill be sure to tell him that.

For the Axles I will be going with a grizzly locker in the front and a detroit locker for the rear. A dana 60 front and 14 bolt for the rear with 4.11 gears.

Going to have to wait till the weekend to move the truck out of the snow.

 

[steve6x6x6]

What kind of price was you quoted on these axles?

 

[cosmic339]

What kind of price was you quoted on these axles?

so far a rough quote was $3,000 for the rear axle, and about $5,000 for the front. But the price will change once i tell him the axle only needs to be shortned on one side, that price was for both being shortned.

 

[Lebowski]

Some GM 14 bolt wms info from Pirate4x4:

Comes in two widths - 63" and 67" wms-wms, easily converted from one to the other (that axle shafts are common to both, it is the different hubs that account for the different widths, and these are easily interchanged).

-SRW (non van)14b's are about 67" from 73-91 (old body style), Std studs 9/16 fine

-SRW (non van)14b's are about 65" from 89-00 (all the same body style)
All ^^ have drums not disc brakes, metric studs M14

-SRW (non van)14b's (non 11.5") are about 68" 00-07(newer body style)(all have discs), metric studs M14

All of them share the same carriers and gears. Most everything interchanges. pinion bearings also changed. And diff cover bolts went to metric after they went to the 88+ body style.

From CK5.com:
SRW 67.5"
DRW 72"
C&C 63.5
Van 70"

The SRW and C&C axles use the same housings and shafts, with the difference in width being in the hubs. The housings are actuallly identical except for the location of the backing plate flange. Drums & hubs are different, but backing plates, shoes, and wheel cylinders are the same)
* The SRW and Van axles use the same hubs, the C&C and DRW axles use the same hubs; Though different, the SRW/Van hubs and the C&C/DRW hubs can be interchanged causing a change to the axles WMS
SRW and C&C axle shafts are the same
** Van, DRW, and SRW/C&C axle shafts are all different lengths as follows (long/right side / short/left side):
Type 1 - SRW/C&C - 37-5/8" / 31-5/8"
Type 2 - DRW - ??
Type 3 - Van - ??
C&C and dually brakes are the same.
In all cases one side axleshaft is shorter than the other; pinions are centered.
1350 appears to be the only available stock pinion yoke.
1-tons feature 40.5" perch spacing - whether C&C or pickup, whether SRW or DRW. 3/4-ton is 42.5" spacing. (COUNTER) - The perchs on my C&C measure 36"
Wheel studs went metric for the 88-up C/K trucks, and 96-up vans
Front 60 and rear 14b spindles have the same bearing spacing and same bearing journal sizes. Seal journal is different

From Billavista's 14B article
14BFF

 

[steve6x6x6]

I would like the opportunity to quote if i may? Have been building axles for 30+ years. I have been to watertown, NY many times to buy axles and all over NY. When i am in NY home base is Canandaigua. www.differentialeng.com

 

[cosmic339]

okay so i got the measurements for both WMS to WMS of the stock front and Rear Axle. I got about 70 3/8 inches for the front and for the rear i got 70" inches. There both probably 70". I measured from the drum to the other drum. i also measured the rim and got about 8.5 inches wide. the rim has a positive offset off 76.2 MM. I figure I can go with a axle size of 68" and a custom H1 rim 16x10 or 18x10 or 20 x 10. And still be close to the stock size or footprint. Correct me if I'm wrong. Heres some pictures.

 

[steve6x6x6]

Chevy and ford dana 60 front is 69 1/4" wms. A large part of the info. for billvista's bible can from me.

 

[tbone1004]

also keep in mind what tire size you're going to run. You will have lots of steering clearance problems if you have a wider and/or larger diameter tire on the same track width *HMMWV tires are both wider and larger as you're already aware*. Wheels won't go to full lock without rubbing on the frame or other steering components. You will likely have to do some math to figure out your front wheel angles at full lock and then how much room you're going to need from where the mounting surface is to where the center of the rim is. You will likely save a lot more money by going with stock axle widths and then spending the money on having the rims with custom backspacing.

 

[cosmic339]

okay so correct me if im wrong, im using this gear calculator on this website http://www.ringpinion.com/Calculators/Calc_RPM.aspx . The gear ratio for my ring and pinion will be 3.73, with 37" tires and going 75 MPH my 4BT RPM should be roughly 2032RPMS .
The Economical range for the 4bt is 1800-2300 RPM, so I should be good, correct? The gear ratio for the nv4500 in 5th gear is 0.73 , the website is going with a 0.80 ratio. So my Rpm shouldn't be to far off 2032RPMS doing 75MPH if i ever go that fast. Looking for feedback