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Axle wrap with a bobbed deuce?

862
6
18
Location
Reading Pa
How would something like this work? This is the setup my boss has on his diesel pulling truck. With the triangulated ladder bar the axle wrap cannot be transmitted through the front shackle cause it is up and down force but the horizontal movement of the lead spring from the rear shackle is allowed because of the front shackle on the ladder bar. Now if a Johnny joint was used or a good misalignment heim there shouldn't be my bind I would think either. What do you guys think? Bushings in the rear and heim joint in the front.
 

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mudguppy

New member
1,587
15
0
Location
duncan, sc
Not sure I'm following you here. Can you please elaborate? Are you saying that the shackle will make the traction bar less effective when it comes to controlling axle-wrap? ...
No, not less effective. The discussion before is about bind and if the single traction bar will limit suspension travel. In theory.

Picture the design that Lt Dan just put up - this is exactly what I had in my mind from your description, yes? If you move the axle up and down, as it would for vertical travel through normal suspension compression; what happens to the end of the bar at the shackle - does it move up and down as well? No - it's position is fixed because it is tied to the chassis. If the axle travels vertically 6", it wants the traction bar to move vertically 6" as well... but it won't. It will stay fixed to the chassis and nose the axle down.

Therefore, if the pinion angle is relatively unchanged through normal vertical travel within the leaf spring's range, then the traction bar is going to bind because it will force the pinion angle to change. As the rear is compressed, the bar will force the pinion angle downward, and as the axle droops, the bar will pull it upward. The point was just that this is the same problem as the 'crude' 4-link - it ain't perfect and ain't without some sort of bind. If the single traction bar is forcing the pinion angle opposite to axle travel, then it is effectively changing suspension performance - resisting compression and droop.

Again, if minimal disruption is a concern, then a longer bar will be better as it will not force as much of a change in pitch throughout the normal suspension cycle.

However, the single bar will have a much better chance of not limiting articulation.

However-however, this all still really doesn't matter much because these freakin' springs don't flex all that much to affect a whole lot.

In my opinion.




Or we could just add some slap-bars on and call it good!!!! I hear those things add like 50hp... :mrgreen:
 

mudguppy

New member
1,587
15
0
Location
duncan, sc
How would something like this work? This is the setup my boss has on his diesel pulling truck. With the triangulated ladder bar the axle wrap cannot be transmitted through the front shackle cause it is up and down force but the horizontal movement of the lead spring from the rear shackle is allowed because of the front shackle on the ladder bar. Now if a Johnny joint was used or a good misalignment heim there shouldn't be my bind I would think either. What do you guys think? Bushings in the rear and heim joint in the front.
I think it would work fine in a deuce. I think the finer points we've been discussing don't much matter at all in a bob'er but may have serious complications in a competitive vehicle where the finer points win.

These work great in pulling trucks where you don't want much suspension travel at all and you also want solid control over that pinion angle to keep u-joints from running at undesirable angles.


Or do you think this setup isn't needed on a deuce?
IMO, if you have blocks, something is a must. Or if you off-road and utilize the skinny pedal, you probably want something to prevent bad hop and carnage. If you just tool around town, then it's a personal taste.

I personally like the link-bar design because it keeps all forces in a tension/compression relation - strongest arrangement for bars and joints. The ladder-bar design changes things to bending moments which takes heavier construction to maintain reliability, especially when it comes to joints. Personal taste.
 
862
6
18
Location
Reading Pa
Mudguppy how long are your bars? I have some schedule 80 structural 1 1/4" steel pipe laying around and I'd have enough to make to bars at 60". Is that long enough you think?
 
862
6
18
Location
Reading Pa
I'm thinking your right.... The truck is simple so keep it simple. I like the single bars better. Easier to make and cheaper. I'm thinking of using heims in the front and some energy suspension bushings in the back that I have laying around from a old bronco that I never put them in.
 

mudguppy

New member
1,587
15
0
Location
duncan, sc
Dunno - not that long, though. I can measure tomorrow.

The existing setup on my truck stops short of the fuel tank (and now a second toolbox on D-side). Utilizing the same axle brackets makes it tough to mount behind those items.

If I were to do it again, I'd go longer and utilize a simpler bracket that won't interfere with the tank or 'box.
 

jesusgatos

Active member
2,689
28
38
Location
on the road - in CA right now
Thanks for explaining, and I see what you're saying now. It's true that a traction bar like we're talking about will affect the pinion-angle, but I've never considered that a bad thing. Should actually do more to maintain a desirable pinion-angle as leafsprings tend to do weird things when cycling under power/braking. The main difference between the way this type of traction bar 'forces' the leafsprings to flex, and the way traction bars like yours induce bind, is in the way the leafsprings are loaded. It's that bind in tension and compression that I'm trying to avoid. Think we've pretty well beat this one to death, and I agree with you that in this particular application it hardly matters. Cheers.
 

M-1028

New member
169
0
0
Location
Sealy, Tx
How would something like this work? This is the setup my boss has on his diesel pulling truck. With the triangulated ladder bar the axle wrap cannot be transmitted through the front shackle cause it is up and down force but the horizontal movement of the lead spring from the rear shackle is allowed because of the front shackle on the ladder bar. Now if a Johnny joint was used or a good misalignment heim there shouldn't be my bind I would think either. What do you guys think? Bushings in the rear and heim joint in the front.
This is the ideal setup for eliminating wrap and not allowing a lot of bind. I've built several styles of traction bars and the single bars only start to work if there mounted to the bottom of the housing. If mounted above axle center it's doing nothing to stop wrap, it's just not allowing the shackle to move. You still rely on the springs with the one tube setup.
 
862
6
18
Location
Reading Pa
Lol so did I. I ordered the 7/8"x3/4" heim kit and I got energy suspension bushings for the rear. I'm going to start out long I cut the tubing at 60". I also started to cut the front pieces for the mount. I'm going to use 3"x3"x3/8" angle and 1/4" plate that will mount to the frame. I should have the front mount done tomorrow I'll post some pictures then.
 
862
6
18
Location
Reading Pa
Well my heim joints showed up today. I ordered them off eBay came from California. they are ruff stuffs joints 7/8" to 3/4" with 5/8" misalignment bushings. $75 shipped for the pair. I'll make the mounts on Monday.

Now thats a heim joint
 

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blackrock

New member
331
1
0
Location
Phoenixville,Pa
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what i came up with for this customers truck. God the air chamber sucked working around. but i just got enough clearence for 12" of downward travel and it doesn't hit. 1"x 1.25" heims with 2.5"x .25wall dom tube. i have to finish machining my inserts for the bar i ran out last monster truck we built. mounts are all from 3/8 plate.

I wanted less angle but best i could do besides make the frame plate longer which i like the look of it. was going to mount it on top of axle tube but knowing the leverage lose wouldnt have been worth it. then was looking at putting one of my upper 4 bar mount helmets on the top but so man air lines to get in the way.
 

blackrock

New member
331
1
0
Location
Phoenixville,Pa
center to center if i remember was 44.250". couldn't go much further cause of the air tanks on the pass side. plus customer wants to be able to see the setup from the side of the truck.
 
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