coachgeo
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Glad you found a shop you liked. which one did you end up using?
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Bad drive shaft?
- Thread starter DiverDarrell
- Start date
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- Port orchard, WA
I’ve already got the 3:90 gears. Worth every single cent. Thanks for your shared info. Hopefully this will be a one stop shop for drive shaft issues. I will also be getting my front shafts re done. Cheap insurance!
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- Gardnerville, NV
Drive-line and Gear. The shop has a location in Reno/Sparks and Fallon, NV. Very experienced and helpful folks!
there is a tom of big truck business in this area, just off Interstate 80, so for that I am fortunate..
www.drivelineandgear.com
Pointman
there is a tom of big truck business in this area, just off Interstate 80, so for that I am fortunate..
www.drivelineandgear.com
Pointman
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- Gardnerville, NV
I would love to hear about the hub lash tool.. That is next for me while I add the higher speed gears.
Pointman
Pointman
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Interesting video. It's amazing how old-school the process really is.
CMPPhil
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Source I have used in the past for axles
Hi
Thanks for posting the link to the video really interesting. Old line shops like that are gems, because they can work on old stuff that is not in thier computer.
Years ago I broke axle on one of my Canadain Military Pattern trucks, which are poster children for "you want parts for what!!!" . Any way I did up a shop drawing of what I needed and started sending it around to various shops to see who could make one. The place that actually could make a new shaft was Mark Williams out of Colorado https://www.markwilliams.com/ . Shipped my broken shaft out to them and two weeks later had a new shaft installed and truck back on the road. The price was at the time very reasonable about what you would buy a similar axle for a new truck.
Every now and then I check their web site to make sure they are still around, and they are. Interesting web site. Has anybody used them. https://www.markwilliams.com/
I'm in New Hampshire so that was quite a distance to get very helpful people.
Cheers Phil
NOTE Just down loaded their catalog and it looks like they are concentrating on racing and high performance products now. So don't know if they would be a source of truck axles or drive shafts now.
Hi
Thanks for posting the link to the video really interesting. Old line shops like that are gems, because they can work on old stuff that is not in thier computer.
Years ago I broke axle on one of my Canadain Military Pattern trucks, which are poster children for "you want parts for what!!!" . Any way I did up a shop drawing of what I needed and started sending it around to various shops to see who could make one. The place that actually could make a new shaft was Mark Williams out of Colorado https://www.markwilliams.com/ . Shipped my broken shaft out to them and two weeks later had a new shaft installed and truck back on the road. The price was at the time very reasonable about what you would buy a similar axle for a new truck.
Every now and then I check their web site to make sure they are still around, and they are. Interesting web site. Has anybody used them. https://www.markwilliams.com/
I'm in New Hampshire so that was quite a distance to get very helpful people.
Cheers Phil
NOTE Just down loaded their catalog and it looks like they are concentrating on racing and high performance products now. So don't know if they would be a source of truck axles or drive shafts now.
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coachgeo
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Glad they are still a good company. They did some work for me ge gawed back in the 90's. Folks in offroad clubs jn that part of the world suggested them to me when I was a Jeeper living and working in Sparks.
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- Gardnerville, NV
Round II, Front Prop-Shaft is out.
With show coming in late today, I decided to pull the front prop shaft to get ready for transport back to Drive Line & Gear for a quick inspection.
I have a feeling that even though it was installed 'New' back in early September, it may need work. I made a classic newbie-mistake and trusted the vendor that this was a complete and ready to be installed upgraded unit... Hmmm... not so fast. I later found out that the unit was missing an end-plug. These can be plastic and popped in, but the better ones are welded in. So now I most likely just have a good 'core' for a re-build. When I pulled this today I could just begin to feel a bit of spline play, but the U-Joints felt tight..
Photo #1 below is the new shaft out missing the end plug... Doh! Don't do what I did...
Photo Two, I found while doing this post. The Front prop shaft on the left came out and was what I found when I replaced with the upgraded unit. Notice the size of the yoke on the T-case side. Massive, when compared to the original. It will be interesting to see how this balances up when I get it back.
Pointman
With show coming in late today, I decided to pull the front prop shaft to get ready for transport back to Drive Line & Gear for a quick inspection.
I have a feeling that even though it was installed 'New' back in early September, it may need work. I made a classic newbie-mistake and trusted the vendor that this was a complete and ready to be installed upgraded unit... Hmmm... not so fast. I later found out that the unit was missing an end-plug. These can be plastic and popped in, but the better ones are welded in. So now I most likely just have a good 'core' for a re-build. When I pulled this today I could just begin to feel a bit of spline play, but the U-Joints felt tight..
Photo #1 below is the new shaft out missing the end plug... Doh! Don't do what I did...
Photo Two, I found while doing this post. The Front prop shaft on the left came out and was what I found when I replaced with the upgraded unit. Notice the size of the yoke on the T-case side. Massive, when compared to the original. It will be interesting to see how this balances up when I get it back.
Pointman
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- Location
- Port orchard, WA
Yeah that cap is kind of important. Please keep us informed on the outcome.
- 319
- 13
- 18
- Location
- Gardnerville, NV
Front Prop Shaft, Finale..
Luckily I had some meetings in Reno this morning, so I dropped off the front prop shaft at Drive Line & Gear around 11:30 am. It was ready by 2:30 pm!
Per the attached photo, this is what an 'out-of-time' shaft looks like. The yokes must be timed to cross over each other at the same 'time' when mounted. This NOT true for all drive line applications, but seems to be a big factor with our trucks. This misalignment can/will cause an out-of-balance condition with all the bad consequences one can imagine..
I got lucky this time. No spline replacement needed. The unit was balanced with new grease seals and a new end cap for $179.00. I had been prepared for much worse news.
It would be a good idea to check the relationship your yokes to one another. If you buy surplus, check carefully before purchase, especially if they are 'used'.. This has been educational and all, but if I would have known then what I know now... It is possible that at some point, my unit had been pulled apart, or fell apart and was jut not reassembled correctly, before being sold to me.
This prop shaft is also a Dana-Spicer 1610. 1610 is the outside measurement of the yoke tabs where the needle bearing holders are bolted in on the prop shaft, and as noted previously, is the 'D' upgrade for all later A-0 and A-1 trucks.
One positive side-note. I found a shop around the corner called Axelline. It is owned by one Aaron Lechnet, and he specializes in working on big trucks with Meritor axles. We plan on looking into the model number of third member (pumpkins..) that are in the axles now and see what labor for a gear change would cost. I would think I could handle the rear myself. The front could be another story. I am still weighing the economics of doing a gear change with the goal being to reduce the rotational speed of the prop shaft for longer service and life.
Luckily I had some meetings in Reno this morning, so I dropped off the front prop shaft at Drive Line & Gear around 11:30 am. It was ready by 2:30 pm!
Per the attached photo, this is what an 'out-of-time' shaft looks like. The yokes must be timed to cross over each other at the same 'time' when mounted. This NOT true for all drive line applications, but seems to be a big factor with our trucks. This misalignment can/will cause an out-of-balance condition with all the bad consequences one can imagine..
I got lucky this time. No spline replacement needed. The unit was balanced with new grease seals and a new end cap for $179.00. I had been prepared for much worse news.
It would be a good idea to check the relationship your yokes to one another. If you buy surplus, check carefully before purchase, especially if they are 'used'.. This has been educational and all, but if I would have known then what I know now... It is possible that at some point, my unit had been pulled apart, or fell apart and was jut not reassembled correctly, before being sold to me.
This prop shaft is also a Dana-Spicer 1610. 1610 is the outside measurement of the yoke tabs where the needle bearing holders are bolted in on the prop shaft, and as noted previously, is the 'D' upgrade for all later A-0 and A-1 trucks.
One positive side-note. I found a shop around the corner called Axelline. It is owned by one Aaron Lechnet, and he specializes in working on big trucks with Meritor axles. We plan on looking into the model number of third member (pumpkins..) that are in the axles now and see what labor for a gear change would cost. I would think I could handle the rear myself. The front could be another story. I am still weighing the economics of doing a gear change with the goal being to reduce the rotational speed of the prop shaft for longer service and life.
Attachments
- 629
- 24
- 18
- Location
- Port orchard, WA
I’m sure with it correctly timed things will run much smoother. I wouldn’t fear the gear change, meritor has good write ups on setting gear lash. Setting pinion depth can be a pain. The size of everything is what makes things difficult. I had never done a meritor style before, and this was the first one I attempted solo. However I do have the indicators necessary for the job, that can be another investment. I had to do it myself as I’m active duty on a limited budget. I also find these things fun for the most part. I only had to chase one wrench as far as I could throw it. The front is just time consuming on the removal and install. But you do get a chance to replace seals, and pack new grease into bearings. Thanks for your input and findings and the photo of an out of timed shaft. When they balanced mine they put timing marks on the two parts, and arrow stickers so even a boatswains mate can’t screw it up.
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Just a little further explanation on this, for those who may read this in the future...
Universal joints do not turn at a constant speed, they pulse (speed up as one part of the u-joint comes around, then slow down for the next, then speed up, and down...). The steeper the angle of the shaft from the yoke, the greater the difference between top speed and lowest speed (e.g. biggest size pulse). If the driveshaft is perfectly straight from the yoke there is no pulsing.
Since there is a u-joint at each end of the shaft, if the yoke angle of each end is equal, but opposite, the pulses cancel out and you get smooth rotation again. You rarely encounter this perfectly, especially in high angle drivelines like the LMTV because the transmission can't be tipped down far enough to point parallel to the axle input yoke. Plus, the axle can move so the angle is constantly changing. It also begs the question, "How loaded was the truck that the default angle was set up for?" (e.g. empty, mid-travel of the spring, fully loaded bed, etc.)?
These issues are why Constant Velocity (CV) joints were developed. All shafts with just a single u-joint at each end will be significantly affected by phasing of the shaft and input / output angles. Other types of shafts, such as those with double-cardan joints have their own behaviors.
Also, since the driveshaft could be put back together two different ways that still would look in-phase (e.g. 0° and 180°), you have to be careful. Even though getting it back together in 180° would fix the u-joint pulsing problem, it would still imbalance the shaft because it had been balanced and weighted with it put together the other way.
I dug up a quick YouTube video that illustrates this all very well. Watch how big a difference being out of phase, or having the yoke angles changed, makes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmV4qwLfOMY
coachgeo
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thank you for your video...... and it actually led to a new discovery.... a vibration testing App. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuI0hH2TuxQ this measures not just driveshaft.... but tires and engine vibrations too. Not sure how well it would work with our vibration prone like truck.... but would make interesting test.... b
But it is 400 bucks. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=vibratesoftware.jacobkelly.nvh&hl=en
wonder if we could do a group purchase... install test..... then uninstall from that phone.... and pass app to another one of us to install and test.... etc. that was can test lot of trucks and build a data base of norms? Or....group buy the app..... and install an a used phone we mail around to each other. Maybe pay a Huge deposit... but get it all back when it is returned to home base location or next person on the list?
But it is 400 bucks. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=vibratesoftware.jacobkelly.nvh&hl=en
wonder if we could do a group purchase... install test..... then uninstall from that phone.... and pass app to another one of us to install and test.... etc. that was can test lot of trucks and build a data base of norms? Or....group buy the app..... and install an a used phone we mail around to each other. Maybe pay a Huge deposit... but get it all back when it is returned to home base location or next person on the list?
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CMPPhil
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Hi
These are two great videos.
The vibration detection iPhone app is one of the best excuses for an iPhone. Who will be the first in the group to get the app, want a consumer report using it on an MVs.
Cheers Phil
These are two great videos.
The vibration detection iPhone app is one of the best excuses for an iPhone. Who will be the first in the group to get the app, want a consumer report using it on an MVs.
Cheers Phil
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They have it for Android too.
- 629
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- Port orchard, WA
We’ll some follow up to my viberations. Today I checked rim run out in the rear, the left rear was a little off center so I loosened the lug nuts and re torqued and double checked. From there I found about an eighth of tire out of round. May be from the fact it was 24 degrees out and I didn’t run the tires up to temp first. The left rear was about a sixteenth in roundness and rim runout. If the weather holds out I’ll check the fronts. ALSO!! LOCKER in the rear made this not very fun. I would have to rock the tire back and fourth with much effort to get the locker to unlock to spin the wheel. The second you stop to check things it would lock back up.... first world problems I guess lol
- 319
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- Gardnerville, NV
Front Drive Shaft - Epilogue
More positive news. I received the front prop-shaft back last Wednesday and installed it before we got a bit of snow. It was verified by the shop that it was not only out-of-time, but also out of balance!
My co-pilot and I put 40 miles on the newly installed setup yesterday. Again very smooth, up past 45 mph and beyond.
Long term, I am considering the higher gears, for comfort, and to relieve the stress on the drive line for longevity.
Pointman
More positive news. I received the front prop-shaft back last Wednesday and installed it before we got a bit of snow. It was verified by the shop that it was not only out-of-time, but also out of balance!
My co-pilot and I put 40 miles on the newly installed setup yesterday. Again very smooth, up past 45 mph and beyond.
Long term, I am considering the higher gears, for comfort, and to relieve the stress on the drive line for longevity.
Pointman
- 629
- 24
- 18
- Location
- Port orchard, WA
Excellent! I will be taking my front in as well for an inspection and balance. It’s cheap insurance. I’ve further isolated that my shake. It appears only at a speed of 20-25 mph and seems to be timed to rotation of a tire. I’ve got some tires to swap in, will have to wait for the mud to dry a bit.
1951M1078
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Just was under my truck and checked the play. Wow, not going to be driving it until I have the shafts done. Think I found my Alt. bolt problem. LOL
Was thinking about putting them in some PVC for shipping ? Ideas ? Think they will go up to NV. for repair . Would like someone that has done it before.
Was thinking about putting them in some PVC for shipping ? Ideas ? Think they will go up to NV. for repair . Would like someone that has done it before.
coachgeo
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Not worth shipping it somewhere. Most any commercial truck drive line place can do them. A shop that does Big Rigs often is what you want. They are not some special military magic application.. Just quality commercial truck design and parts.