Bad News Georgia HMMWV Owners

[Action]

The DMV could make us sign a HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT !

 

[Action]

Hi all,
New guy here. You all are way more knowledgeable and experienced in this than I, but I wanted to share my experience so far and see what you all think.
.............................I bought my truck from a person that can buy directly from the gov, so my truck never went through the auction. I did not get a SF97, and never signed a HH. ................ I received a bill of sale only when I purchased and was able to get a registration from another state. (Won't go into specifics as I'm not sure if that's allowed or not...).

Anyway, when I took my proof of ownership and current on-road tags/registration to convert them to Michigan where I now reside, .....................
...

So, you thought you were fine with a Humvee that could have been stolen? Why did you register it in another state first?

 

[rhurey]

The DMV could make us sign a HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT !

They do in WA when you convert a off road vehicle to on road.

But the program doesn't cover hmmwv due to size.

 

[Chief_919]

I bought my truck from a person that can buy directly from the gov, so my truck never went through the auction. I did not get a SF97, and never signed a HH. Not sure if the original buyer did or not, but from what I understand and from what has been stated so far, that agreement is between the two individuals involved in that original transaction, therefore I currently own the truck and have in no way agreed to keep it off-road only in any way. I received a bill of sale only when I purchased and was able to get a registration from another state. (Won't go into specifics as I'm not sure if that's allowed or not...).

Yeah, I hate to bust your bubble but you didn't buy from someone who buys "direct from the government".

There is no such thing.

You bought from one of the many BS artist flippers who buy from GP and then resell without processing the paperwork to get a title so they can avoid the cost, headaches, taxes and legal issues.

 

[Al Harvey]

According to an interpretation on March 16, 1994. Military vehicles are exempt from 49 CFR 571.7(c) FMVSS for the life of the vehicle. Here is a link to the interpretation on the NHTSA website. https://isearch.nhtsa.gov/gm/94/nht94-1.78.html Now there might be a newer interpretation that negates this one. That would have to be determined before going any farther. And PLEASE don't print that off and run to your DMV. We need to work this through first and cover all the facts before approaching the states.


As for the individual states, they will look at a "off road only" title or paperwork, just like a salvage title. There are steps that have to be meet before it can safely be on the road again. My state of TN requires photographs and certification before a salvage vehicle can be titled as a rebuilt vehicle. This includes it meeting the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration standards. If the state issued a legit title to a salvage vehicle and that person hits someone and killed them because it was not properly repaired to meet the FMVSS, then the state can be sued by the person who was hit. A hold harmless agreement only prevents them from being sued by the person who signs it.

So a possible process would be;

1) you buy a HMMWV with Off Road Only on the paperwork
2) you get all the forms required by the state for getting a title
a) these will probably include a VIN verification by law enforcement
b) forms stating that the vehicle is exempt from FMVSS
c) photographs of the vehicle
d) signed and notarized statement that the vehicle is in safe operating condition
e) emissions test or proof of exemption (where required)
f) general safety inspection by a facility the state approves of
3) File paperwork with your DMV and pay fees and taxes required
4) wait and hope

 

[patracy]

Yes sir Swiss. Too much opinion, very little fact.

I think we've established the positions of this via the armchair legal defense panel. There's no need to stipulate. If you have information to the matter (paperwork), please post it here.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

Gentlemen we need facts and official documents, any other post in this thread is opinion or rambling. I had to give up reading as it was getting bad.

Would love to see official documentation. Letters of denial, federal rulings, state law etc.



If you were denied something ,you have the right in most cases to get in writing from the ruling party, an official answer. It will require the request in most cases in writing.

We were able to change the laws of Georgia by getting the problem in writing.

Way to much opinion in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Listen to a man who has been there and done that. Sitting behind a keyboard and speculating won't get it done. What part of off road use only did you not understand? Get some pointers from Swiss and go for the gold.

 

[Chief_919]

For paperwork, here is the first hurdle you all face.

The MANUFACTURER of the vehicle is on record saying that the vehicle is not made or intended for commercial use on public roads and highways and that any issued registrations should be recalled.

When the actual maker of the vehicle tells states they shouldn't be allowing them on the road that is a huge thing.

FYI, look at the date on the letter. This has been out there long before the GP sales so nobody can say this is a surprise.

 

[Carrera911]

GREAT NEWS
I'm going to start off by saying thanks to those who were supportive and PM'd me with help and questions.
I am also surprised by the amount of negativity on here too "how dare you go against the "contract", "I told you so", "Don't make the military vehicle crowd look bad" yada yada yada.
Anyway, I called the state on Monday and the number they gave wasn't to whatever ******* sent me this letter, it was to their basic automated line with of course another robot and 50 menus. Got all the numbers pressed and... 10 callers ahead, 110 minutes. Typical government. I hung up. I went to the state yesterday with the 3 letters I got for all the trucks I bought (and some I've sold). I waited in line and finally got someone. I gave them the letters, stated the facts and she walked to the back and gave me the green light. Easier than I thought.
Since today was about as great as I can expect for early March, I applied my fresh registration sticker, pulled off the doors and drove it to work in spite .

 

[infidel got me]

I have watched this OFF ROAD ONLY title thing for a while... and I really don't know what to say. If you made it through.... good for you... if you did not... I only hope that we don't loose our privilege of owning a Humvee. Wait till the smoke settles--- don't make a spectacle of yourself at the dmv... and maybe, things will sort themselves out.

 

[doghead]

opcorn:

 

[NormB]

For paperwork, here is the first hurdle you all face.
The MANUFACTURER of the vehicle is on record saying that the vehicle is not made or intended for commercial use on public roads and highways and that any issued registrations should be recalled.
When the actual maker of the vehicle tells states they shouldn't be allowing them on the road that is a huge thing.
FYI, look at the date on the letter. This has been out there long before the GP sales so nobody can say this is a surprise.

Says "commercial use."

Right there on the paper.

Not "private" use.

 

[Al Harvey]

Chief is right about the letter being a big hurdle. The only way of approaching that is to address the the vehicle fits the exemption in the 49 CFR 571.7(c) because it was built to the contract specifications of the military. Then that grants the vehicle the exemption from FMVSS. If the interpretation I posted earlier (from the NHSTA website) still holds true, then that vehicle is exempt when transferred to private hands regardless of what the manufacture claims. Unless they are claiming it wasn't built to the contract standards for the military in the first place. Another point of discussion for this would be items that were built with the tag "For US Government Use Only" but then were sold to the public. Many shipping containers and boxes have that designation on it. The original manufacturing company can issue their opinion and use that opinion to try and influence regulation, but it is not a legal document to prevent private or commercial use of those vehicles.

 

[infidel got me]

The other thing that has me confused is why is AM GENRAL so pissed off at the sale of surplused Humvees? I hear they are out of biddness........

 

[Daybreak]

The other thing that has me confused is why is AM GENRAL so pissed off at the sale of surplused Humvees? I hear they are out of biddness........

Howdy,
hehe
They would rather have all HMMWV scrapped. That way they can build new ones.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I understand what all the fuss is about on am generals part. they didn't want cheap no frills hmmwv's getting into the publics hands while they were selling 60k shwartzinhager specials to the public. the civilian models have to be emissions certified and crash tested. I don't know what crash testing entails but I do know what getting an engine certified for an off road vehicle cost's a buddy of mine had over 1.5 mill into getting a epa cert for a track rig he wanted to reproduce. At that rate you can all of a sudden see how a nitch market vehicle like a Humvee could be a loosing proposition unless you got 60k per unit. Looking at selling prices the government is doing pretty good on these as back in the late 80's fedlog showed the government paid 25 k per unit for the armored models and like 18 k for a 4 door soft top. look what they are getting for them now at auction after they have been rode hard and put away wet.

 

[AdamC2017]

Would you please go ask for a copy of said federal mandate and post it here? That's a new one.

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Here is a link to what Michigan SOS gave me.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Humvee_Info_Letter_526983_7.pdf

I have not been able to find the federal mandate searching online. I will contact them tomorrow to see if they can provide me with it.

 

[tomelroy]

AM General's Humvee C ( a 60,000.00 Humvee without engine or trans), now they are competing with all the surplus HMMWVS. AM General is still in business and making HMMWVS and other vehicles.

 

[infidel got me]

Years gone bye bye bye --- they out o bidness !!

 

[Lawdog734]

Years gone bye bye bye --- they out o bidness !!

They aren't out of business and are still making HMMWV's - they also still show up to all of the major military trade shows to promote it.