Battery/Starting

[sedone]

Hey Guys,
I searched the forum and haven't been able to glean it from there so...
I am having my first issue in regards to my new-to-me M1008.
I left her sitting for a couple of weeks, tried to start and got about three or four
shots at it before the whirring and clicking started. Disconnected the batteries from their cables and charged each of them to 100% to take another shot at it. I had to do this three times in total before she started. Voltage Meter showed her charging and I didn't have any problems for the next couple of days as I drove. Let her sit again for only about a week and this time she turned over a few times and it just went to clicking, no starter whatsoever. I charged the batteries again three more times and it just got consistently worse to where both batteries were fully charged and the most I got was about six slow flywheel revolutions. She never started. My next step is to get the batts checked (KISS) just wondering if I am missing something totally obvious.

She is a 1986 M1008 that was semi retired to Fish and Widlife as a snow truck. 44,000 miles. Stock 12v/24v system in place with a whole bunch of harness for the snow plow but everything looks legit and I have had zero problems other than running out of fuel
(this is my first Diesel...) and having to crack all the lines. She has been well mantained and came with maintenance records.

So far all I have done is Lift, Wheels, Tires.

Thanks in Advance, sedone

 

[mangus580]

First of all.... sounds like you have a bad starter... and possibly a draw somewhere in your electrical system. Also, make sure you glow plugs are actually functioning, as you shouldnt have to crank alot to get it started.

 

[texas-5-ton]

I agree with Mike. sounds like a starter. Take it off and get it checked. You could also get your alternator checked for peace of mind..

 

[Armada]

Hmmmm. Could be starter, but have battery cranking amps checked first. They may show a full charge, but not be able to sustain the correct amount for cranking. How old are the batteries?

 

[alphadeltaromeo]

My CAT 951c had the same issue. It looked like the batts were the issue, but when I pulled the starter, it wouldn't turn at all. The batts were just fine. Changed the starter and the problem was resolved. This, of course, may not be the issue, but it does sound quite similar.

 

[devilman96]

Ditto with everyone but always start with the easiest solution first...

First... Welcome to the world of MV's... If you dont own a good multi meter and load tester already... enjoy buyiong them!!! Often you will find that the 3 of you will work very closely over the years!!!

Charge the batteries 100% and LOAD test them.... if good proceed.

Reinstall the batteries test for start.... if good proceed.

Test charging system for output... (don't rely on the gauges) if good proceed. 13.5V or 26.5V minimums

Load test the cables... (I dont know how many times I've seen battries and starters replaced over a 10$ cable or bad end!!!).

Allow to sit for a few days, re-test starting.... if bad, RE-TEST batteries without charging for load and voltage (this will reasonably tell you if you do, or do not have a draw on the truck when turned off which could be killing your batteries)

Then start calling the starter names... Remove it and have it tested.

Notice... 0 $ were spent and a minimum of work was preformed... When dealing with electrical ALWAYS start with one end of the system or the other and move through the system IN ORDER... With starting system always start working from your source (batteries) and work towards your load (starter in this case)... Don't jump around in the process!!!

 

[ida34]

I recently bought a carbon pile load tester from Harbor Freight for about $15 bucks on sale. Not as fancy as the computer controlled ones but when I work in as a mechanic and parts manager this is what we used and it got the job done. I figure $15 was worth being able to check batteries at home without taking them out to get them checked. Even the local Meijer (Super Walmart type store) has them for about $25. Get on then you can check your batteries and charging system yourself before you move on to taking the starter in for a load test. They are really simple to use.

 

[sedone]

Thanx so much guys, today is Big X-Mas for us Krauts. We open presents today so maybe someone got me
a gift card = new tools! I'll let you know how it pans out.
If the starter is bad would you guys suggest doing the 12v conversion?
I have read two versions one running it a split system with 3 batteries and the other
simply switching out the 24v pieces and rewiring. Pros/Cons?
Thanks again for your help.
sedone

 

[1956_4x4]

Re: RE: Battery/Starting

Thanx so much guys, today is Big X-Mas for us Krauts. We open presents today so maybe someone got me
a gift card = new tools! I'll let you know how it pans out.
If the starter is bad would you guys suggest doing the 12v conversion?
I have read two versions one running it a split system with 3 batteries and the other
simply switching out the 24v pieces and rewiring. Pros/Cons?
Thanks again for your help.
sedone

If you plan on jump starting other 24 volt vehicles, I'd keep it original. I changed over to a 12 volt starter and I highly recommend the conversion. I'm running the same two batteries and one alternator. I picked up the starter for a little over $100 and it works great.

I don't think I'd recommend going to 12 volts if your existing starter works; it just doesn't make sense to replace a starter that can still do the job. So, if you find that the batteries are the problem just change them and press on. I wasn't going to change over, but my starter went bad thanks to a faulty solenoid that kept it engaged. By the time I was able to get to my tools, the starter and some of the wiring was fried.

Smitty

 

[cuc-v]

it sounds to me like ur glow plugs arent heating...same thing had happened to me, try jumping them(if you havent done it b4 just take a small peice of wire and tuch one side of the wire to the red wire on the top of the sulenoid and the other end of the wire to the orange wire on the bottom of the sulenoid...do this for about 15 sec. and then try cranking it over) o and make sure u pull out the relay board thats under the dash otherwise you could fry it.

 

[emmado22]

How do cables and ends go bad???? Corrosion?

 

[ida34]

Corosion inside the cables can seperate the strands and give more resistance. Most of the time corosion kills the cables.

 

[emmado22]

So how does one check for internal corrosion???

 

[ida34]

Look at the ends and you may be able to see it there. Most of the time some battery acid gets in and starts the corrosion. By looking at the cable look for a bulge and this usually is corrosion inside the cable. Sometimes people clean the corrosion off the ends but it still seeps into the cable. When it gets bad the insulation cracks. You could also check the cable for resistance but visual inspection is usually all you need. Also, if you have hard starting problems I would grab the cable and see if it is very hot to the touch. If it is hot the starter may be drawing a lot of current or the cable is offering to much resistance. If you have a hard start problem and the starter checks out good I would replace the cables and make sure the connections are cleaned up. Also use the red anti corrosion spray on all connections to prevent corrosion. I also use the little felt washers on my stuff. Make sure you clean up any acid or corrosion as soon as you see it. My wife's car would not start and it was fixed by just taking the terminals off and cleaning them. They did not even look that bad. I had an old for tractor with a non insulated ground cable. Over the years the cable became unwrapped and loose. It gave me trouble from time to time until I replaced it. No corrosion just the wire was unwrapped and not in tight physical contact with each other.

 

[sedone]

So I have gone through almost all of the steps suggested, the Batts are good, checked all the fusables, fuses and on. She is still doing the exact same thing. I just had an idea, I have a switch on the dash just like the one pictured. I was told to turn it on to warm the glow plugs and I realized that after last driving it I had left the switch in the On position. I set it back as soon as I saw it but do you guys think I could have fried the glow plugs? Sorry for my newbieness but this is not only my first Diesel but my first CUCV as well. Thanks again in advance, sedone

 

[mangus580]

Could have fried every one!

Replace the glow plugs, and start over. I suggest you put a momentary switch on the glow plugs. YOu dont want to leave it on by mistake.

 

[sedone]

O.K. so I got a new set of glow plugs, is there anything else a Jack@#s like me should know before I put them in, is there concern for the controller or relay?
I suppose that taking the old ones out should be done as gingerly as possible (the whole mushroom thing), correct?
I also assume that the manual switch is wired into the block on the firewall?
One more thing, my wait light still comes on and I can hear the relay clicking and the voltmeter shows a bit more juice when the relay goes off.
I read that if that is occuring regularly then I have a problem which is what gave me the idea that it might not be Batts at all.
Thanx for your help guys, sedone