Belgian F-16 Destroyed: "Accidental" Cannon-fire 2018-10-14

[Robo McDuff]

Any idea about European ways of counting kills?

 

[Guyfang]

No, never knew any German zoomies. Don't remember if Galands book says anything. Nor Erich Hartmann's book. But I found this in the net:

This is a list of fighter aces in World War II from Germany. A flying ace or fighter ace is a military aviator credited with shooting down five or more enemy aircraft during aerial combat. It is relatively certain that 2,500 German fighter pilots attained ace status,

This was taken from Wikipedia. Hartmann was top German Ace, with 352 kills.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Maybe that is were I got my idea: shooting down five or more enemy aircraft during areal combat

Maybe the mechanic was high but not flying and the other airplane definitely does not count as enemy, more a case of friendly fire.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

So, my question - does the mechanic get to put a kill marking on his toolbox?

Cheers

UH, I don't think that FRIENDLY FIRE earns decorations. Not on this side of the Atlantic Ocean anywaze.

 

[M813rc]

I think planes on the ground without pilot do not count as "kill"

But if both planes are on the ground, and both are pilotless...... maybe an exception could be made!
I imagine his buddies already took care of the kill mark, regardless of the official rules.

Maybe I missed it in here, but a bit of information to keep in mind - most of the multi-barrel rotary guns on aircraft will fire if you manually rotate the barrels of a loaded weapon. No power need be on, and no buttons need be pushed. That appears to be what happened in this case.

Cheers

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Maybe I missed it in here, but a bit of information to keep in mind - most of the multi-barrel rotary guns on aircraft will fire if you manually rotate the barrels of a loaded weapon. No power need be on, and no buttons need be pushed. That appears to be what happened in this case.

Cheers

"But, Sir, I just didn't know the gun was loaded ! ! !"

"That's no excuse, airman dipstick...."

 

[Robo McDuff]

..........

Maybe I missed it in here, but a bit of information to keep in mind - most of the multi-barrel rotary guns on aircraft will fire if you manually rotate the barrels of a loaded weapon. No power need be on, and no buttons need be pushed. That appears to be what happened in this case.

Cheers

Your kidding, right? No your not. I started to say it sounds like an pre-1900 Gatling Gun, then read up on the things and found out that that is exactly what it is. With all the billions invested in these machines, nobody thought about adding some sort of safety pall? Must be cheaper than an entire new airplane.

 

[M813rc]

Surprising, isn't it!? My younger son was a Marine Corps ordnanceman on Cobras before being assigned to V-22s. He said they had innumerable drillls and lectures on that 20mm nose gun being able to fire just by turning the barrels (like grabbing a barrel for support while getting up off the ground). He said they had a device that mechanically locked the barrels when on the ground for servicing, but once that was removed......
The 7.62mm miniguns on the Osprey would do the same thing.

Cheers

 

[robertsears1]

I flew the F-16 for about 10 years and 1550 hours. We always flew with the gun loaded, even on air to air training missions where you are trying to kill the other guy with the gun (simulated). The master arm switch went down for training, center was safe, and up was arm (I think, it’s been 20 years). There was a little pin on the left side that would safe the gun, electrically I think. I don’t ever remember anyone saying how each round is touched off. I tend to think electrically vs mechanically since the rate of fire was 100 rounds per second. The F-16 ( the only way most pilots refered to the aircraft) carried 512 rounds so you had 5.12” of shooting.

I also was a WSO in the F-4E and it was also always loaded. It used a mechanical device called the hold back tool which would not let the barrels rotate. Obviously, the mishap occurred when someone did not follw procedure which is how you kill the wrong people.

Robert