best diesel engine to swap into early-model CJ5?

[patracy]

Don't want to argue the point with you, but I've looked at the specs and the 4BT is a bad fit for an early model CJ5 (length, height, weight). This is just a little runaround Jeep. Only concerned about power to the extent that I want to enough torque to pull gears and keep up with traffic. Beyond that, more concerned about fuel economy.

My samurai is fine for around the town romps. Highway, forget it. Hill? Downshift. Pass? only a gas station.

Get into an area you don't know, and you might find yourself on a highway arena where you've not got enough power to keep from getting ran over.

Off road, it's great. But if I had it to do over again, I'd have gone with a more powerful mill. Every single time over.

Edit:
My samurai is just a toy as well. It only gets driven when I take a whim to drive it. Honestly a lot of times I ask myself "hey maybe I should drive the sami". Then I get near it and jump into the CUCV or a deuce. A underpowered vehicle looses it's appeal quickly. (I even compete in my head on what MV to drive)

 

[MO MV man]

What axle gear?

Even with the Warn overdrive, some of the early axle ratios (5.38's) are ridiculous with a diesel.
It'll run out of steam LONG before that 225 will.

As for 4BT's.......they're awesome but they're heavy and WAY over-priced because it seems everyone wants them for darn near every swap imagineable.
I've been hunting one for a reasonably-priced one for a long time. Basically gave up.

I have a CJ3A that I'd love to diesel but the cost to re-engineer the rig for the diesel, re-gear and such is staggering. I'll stick with what I have.

 

[Goose2448]

I have a 4.4L Turbo Perkins in my Reed A40HP Concrete Pump, and its great. Does decent on fuel, no problems with, got 500 hours on it since the beginning of the year. Just gotta keep the oil changed in it every 100 hours. Once the oil in those start to go black, bad things happen. It sounds pretty good, but its not a 6.0. Its quiet for the most part, no diesel knock. Its the about the same size as a 4bt. 82hp is enough to push 3" slump blended mix 500' though 3" pipe and hose. That's dam impressive in a small compact trailer pump. I have wondered what that engine would be like in a little truck or suv.

 

[Keith_J]

A 1.9 VW TDI would be more than adequate for a CJ5 if given proper injector and injection pump size. Yes, they do make a mechanical type. An electronic might be a bit more but it could work better. Malone makes a tune that doesn't require the instrument panel for immobilizer synch with the 1999-2003 electronic control unit. You will need the electronic throttle. The advantage with electronic is more torque at higher RPMs since digital governors have much steeper fuel cut-off at maximum RPM.

You can easily get 150 HP out of it with a VNT17/22 combination which will get you over 300 foot-pounds of torque at 1900 RPM. It is the torque which counts as it is down low. Mileage will also be great.

 

[m16ty]

Kubota and Perkins both have several good engines that will fit in a CJ5. Personally, I'd go with a Perkins. Those little engines are everywhere, are dirt cheap, and the parts are dirt cheap.

 

[jesusgatos]

My samurai is fine for around the town romps. Highway, forget it. Hill? Downshift. Pass? only a gas station.

Get into an area you don't know, and you might find yourself on a highway arena where you've not got enough power to keep from getting ran over.

Off road, it's great. But if I had it to do over again, I'd have gone with a more powerful mill. Every single time over.

Edit:
My samurai is just a toy as well. It only gets driven when I take a whim to drive it. Honestly a lot of times I ask myself "hey maybe I should drive the sami". Then I get near it and jump into the CUCV or a deuce. A underpowered vehicle looses it's appeal quickly. (I even compete in my head on what MV to drive)

Sorry, what engine are you talking about exactly? How much does your Sami weigh, and what's the gearing and all that?

Funny thing is this little CJ5 will be the most practical vehicle I own.

What axle gear?

Even with the Warn overdrive, some of the early axle ratios (5.38's) are ridiculous with a diesel.
It'll run out of steam LONG before that 225 will.

No idea. Going to throw a pair of D44's out of a late 70's Wagoneer under this thing and I'm going to rebuild those. By the way, if any of you guys know where I can find a set of those axles, please let me know.

A 1.9 VW TDI would be more than adequate for a CJ5 if given proper injector and injection pump size. Yes, they do make a mechanical type. An electronic might be a bit more but it could work better. Malone makes a tune that doesn't require the instrument panel for immobilizer synch with the 1999-2003 electronic control unit. You will need the electronic throttle. The advantage with electronic is more torque at higher RPMs since digital governors have much steeper fuel cut-off at maximum RPM.

You can easily get 150 HP out of it with a VNT17/22 combination which will get you over 300 foot-pounds of torque at 1900 RPM. It is the torque which counts as it is down low. Mileage will also be great.

Sounds like you know a lot about those engines. Please tell me more. Sounds like that might be a really good option. Someone just told me that the Kanuckistanian version of those 1.9L TDI's had mechanical injector pump. Have a friend up there who says he's got a good VW connection, so if I know what I'm looking for he might be able to help me find it.

Kubota and Perkins both have several good engines that will fit in a CJ5. Personally, I'd go with a Perkins. Those little engines are everywhere, are dirt cheap, and the parts are dirt cheap.

Please tell me more. Which engines specifically and what kind of money are we talking?

 

[patracy]

Sorry, what engine are you talking about exactly? How much does your Sami weigh, and what's the gearing and all that?

Funny thing is this little CJ5 will be the most practical vehicle I own.

VW 1.6 turbo'ed. ~2750lbs. 3.73's in the axles. samurais have gear reduction in high range as well. I don't recall the final drive ratio right at the moment. With 32" tires my 60mph cruise is 3K rpm, right at the sweet spot of the 1.6.

If this is going to be a practical daily driver, you're going down the wrong path...

 

[jesusgatos]

Going down the wrong path? You mean looking at the 1.9L TDI's? Have been reading-up on them and it looks like they're putting out an impressive amount of power for their size/weight. Why don't you think one of those would be a good choice for this project?

Oh, and I don't think many people would consider any kind of CJ5 a practical daily driver, but then not many people would want to live in an M109 either.

 

[patracy]

Start pricing a 1.9. You'll start looking elsewhere. Plus if you do find a 1.9, you'll want a AAZ model for it to be plug and play. (Mech pump) The timing belt setup of the VW is something I've not enjoyed after loosing my first engine... Power, mehh... If you ring their necks.

I'm just saying from my experience. The diesel samurai gets driven least of all my vehicles.

 

[jesusgatos]

Appreciate your input. Bet that Sami would get driven a little bit more if it was your only vehicle though eh? haha.

 

[4x4 Forever]

4.108 Perkins NA, 4 cylinder, 63HP, old school engine (no electronics) / GL had over 200 4 cylinder Whites? (multifuels) come out a couple of months ago, saw them for 2K? somewhere advertised, old school as well / have you checked Yanmar? do not know if they made one for vehicles. have numerous friends that use them in boats, very light but stout as well.

Personally, I'd go the Perkins, but...it's your choice...

opcorn:

 

[MO MV man]

Bellhousings?
What about bellhousings to adapt all these fantastic little diesels to gato's SM465?

Hopefully there are some OEM units out there? Otherwise, aftermarket swap bellhousings can add up incredibly fast.

Wish you weren't so far away.......I'd be all over that 225 you have right now. It'd work nicely in my 3A.

 

[patracy]

Appreciate your input. Bet that Sami would get driven a little bit more if it was your only vehicle though eh? haha.

In all honesty. I'd sell it and buy a nice FWD 4 cyl car if I were in that condition.

 

[jvandal]

Perkins, Yanmar, Nissan, VW, IH, Detroit..... Any diesel option is cool! But one "small" warning from a re-engine project of mine from a few years back... Pay close attention to the governor setup on any Genset Diesel you think about using. I replaced a Firetruck engine with a larger/newer engine and discovered that some gensets only have a single weight governor and not a dual. What that does is give you a vehicle that will govern the high end but not idle. So when done.... my firetruck died at every stop....

Detroits are very likely to have differing governors.... Yanmar also (less likely than the detroits) but a marine engine series should be great... Perkins? I have some experience with them but the reality is that I've never had to do anything but change the oil and other routine service issues. VW's are cool in that you have a diesel but it will drive more like a gasser than any of the others... IMHO..... Nissan? cant help you...

The aircraft servicing tugs that we had in the USAF had cummins 5.9's but as you have already discovered length is an issue...

As a side bar... my last YJ was re-engined with a Caddilac 4.5L V8... bolts up to the the AMC 2.5L bellhousing.... 200+ HP possible... but many of its own problems.... namely... its not a diesel...

Vandal

 

[Robo McDuff]

Can you get an old peugeot-citroen XUD 1.9 TD engine in the USA? Here in Europe, they are-were considered the best diesel engines for person cars from about 25 years ago to around 2000. A bit less strong than the VW Transporter engine (they range from 60 to 110 HP), but it gets a lot of jobs done. I had one in an old Citroen BX and managed to put 460.000 KM (about 300 000 miles) on it. Did not do it all myself, bought it at 320,000 km, sold it at 460,000 km because of road tax problems. The car was wrecked, the engine continued in a barge. Knowing about that, my late brother put a similar xud engine in his 100 year old previous cargo barge rebuild into independent float-alone house. Worth a look-up if you can get them there. LAter versions were designed in cooperation with Ford, so maybe a more current off-shoot is around in the USA.

In Europe, it would be my choice for swapping into anything small.



Actually, some of the European built Samurai's (by Santana in Spain) used this engine as well.

 

[jvandal]

yes ! if you can find a peugeot and don't mind machining adapter that would be a very reliable choice! Had a 1.6L in a Dodge Omni and routinely knocked down 50 mpg... wouldn't win any drag races but....

 

[jesusgatos]

4.108 Perkins NA, 4 cylinder, 63HP, old school engine (no electronics) / GL had over 200 4 cylinder Whites? (multifuels) come out a couple of months ago, saw them for 2K? somewhere advertised, old school as well / have you checked Yanmar? do not know if they made one for vehicles. have numerous friends that use them in boats, very light but stout as well.

Personally, I'd go the Perkins, but...it's your choice...

opcorn:

Wish I'd seen those auctions! Hate the idea of paying +2x what someone else paid for them a few months ago. Sounds like a neat little engine though. Will see what kind of info I can dig-up.

Bellhousings?
What about bellhousings to adapt all these fantastic little diesels to gato's SM465?

Hopefully there are some OEM units out there? Otherwise, aftermarket swap bellhousings can add up incredibly fast.

Wish you weren't so far away.......I'd be all over that 225 you have right now. It'd work nicely in my 3A.

Yeah, that's a concern of mine too. The TDI should be an easy swap because there's a company that makes an adapter for Trooper's, which use a standard Chevy bellhousing pattern. There are lots of adapters for anything that uses any kind of standard SAE pattern. But anything weird would probably require something custom and that's not a problem - I can do it - but I'm not trying to turn this into a bigger project than it needs to be. If there's a better/simpler solution, I'll go for it.

In all honesty. I'd sell it and buy a nice FWD 4 cyl car if I were in that condition.

That's probably what any reasonable person would do.

Can you get an old peugeot-citroen XUD 1.9 TD engine in the USA? Here in Europe, they are-were considered the best diesel engines for person cars from about 25 years ago to around 2000. A bit less strong than the VW Transporter engine (they range from 60 to 110 HP), but it gets a lot of jobs done. I had one in an old Citroen BX and managed to put 460.000 KM (about 300 000 miles) on it. Did not do it all myself, bought it at 320,000 km, sold it at 460,000 km because of road tax problems. The car was wrecked, the engine continued in a barge. Knowing about that, my late brother put a similar xud engine in his 100 year old previous cargo barge rebuild into independent float-alone house. Worth a look-up if you can get them there. LAter versions were designed in cooperation with Ford, so maybe a more current off-shoot is around in the USA.

In Europe, it would be my choice for swapping into anything small.



Actually, some of the European built Samurai's (by Santana in Spain) used this engine as well.

Appreciate the info. Sounds like a fantastic little engine, but the lack of availability of engines and parts and adapters over here has me thinking that it's not really worth considering for this particular project.

 

[patracy]

That's probably what any reasonable person would do.

Wow, that's the first time I've been called reasonable!

 

[jesusgatos]

Added a list of all the engines to the first post. Please let me know if I've left out anything else worth looking at.

 

[Barrman]

One more odd ball forgotten small diesel to throw at you. Chevy had a 4.3 diesel in the 1987 or so for their front wheel drive cars. I looked into them a few years ago and stopped when I found my CJ-3A had a bunch of cracks in the frame.