Bid Collusion, Group Buys, etc

[emmado22]

Go ask Clark Truck parts about their little "incident" with the law and DRMO auctions... Or look it for yourself. http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f0900/0949.htm

 

[Jones]

Sounds like there can be a fine line between collusion and "jeez, is this guy really serious about what this thing is worth?".

Bottom line still should be our group look-out for Steel Soldiers' good name and reputation. Chris and the mods didn't work long and hard to make this site what it is just to have it torn down but a few mindless comments-- even if meant innocently.

Once brought into question, it can be a long time before a reputation is repaired.

 

[zb39]

These auctions must be very quiet affairs.....what with not being allowed to discuss anything except yhe weather or maybe lunch!....I have never been to 1 so i leave it to others to find out.

 

[kendelrio]

collusion

WOW, guess i missed something today.....

Ummmm me too! Wow, the situation with Clark trucks is AMAZING. They got off easy though.

 

[bulldog_mack13]

I agree , shouldnt be on SS

Why would you air it in the first place? Just tell your buddy in the privacy of your home if you were doing something like this (hey dont bid against me cuse I want it) .

 

[SCSG-G4]

Discussing an auction before the fact is collusion, discussing the same auction after all bidding is complete is not, according to the way I read the law.

No doubt I've bid against others on this site for things, won some, lost others. Stuff I've won, when excess to my needs, I've offered to others that I thought might be interested. Some were interested, others were not - that's life, but it's not collusion because I already had possession before my offers were extended! if you are not sure, talk to a lawyer first.

 

[Numbers]

From everything I have seen on Gov sites, for the most part it concerns seller (individual) setting price, corporation setting price, etc... Not that I like Wikipedia but it is recommended to check other sources than something almost anyone can upload junk into. According to www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/primer-ncu.htm+collusion+law&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=26&gl=us or http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/primer-ncu.pdf

$10 million for corporations, and a fine of up to $350,000 or 3 years imprisonment (or both) for individuals.

Price fixing is an agreement among competitors to raise, fix, or otherwise maintain the price at which their goods or services are sold.

Has anyone here ever been prosecuted for bid rigging/Price fixing? If so were you acting as a corporation and/or the seller? Most examples given have been of companies setting a price. Other examples such as people talking about a bid at an auction when they are not prosecuted is not applicable. Personally if I had an item up for bid an two people were discussing my item and were on or near my property I would not let them bid either. However, not sure whether I would have the right to prosecute them under an Anti-Trust law, Collusion, Price fixing and/or bid rigging. Wouldn't you have to be sure that they were discussing not bidding against each other and not what a fair price would be for an item? Yes, I am aware there is such thing as tacit collusion also.

If bidding was to not be discussed by the consumer then why would most auction sites list the winning bids? Isn't that a form of communication letting people know what it takes to win on a particular lot? Are we to take away all wanted ads from newspapers?

No, I do not discuss bidding collusion (only in theory) nor was I the one looking for power steering parts kits but please don't ask me to not talk about what a fair price for an item is. Supression of communication is not a good way to start.

 

[Michael]

I would like Mike to confirm that the original post with just the pictures asking if that was the complete kit did not violate the rules. It is the discussion afterwords that is violating the rules.
I believe this was a second attempt. I assume he posted a direct link to the auction the first time. Is that why the first attempt was pulled or did it have similar discussion after it.

I will also comment that now that the fire has been fanned to a burning inferno, that I doubt any of us will be winning this auction. A simple yes or no from someone who knows would have been sufficient.

 

[mangus580]

I would like Mike to confirm that the original post with just the pictures asking if that was the complete kit did not violate the rules. It is the discussion afterwords that is violating the rules.I believe this was a second attempt. I assume he posted a direct link to the auction the first time. Is that why the first attempt was pulled or did it have similar discussion after it.

I will also comment that now that the fire has been fanned to a burning inferno, that I doubt any of us will be winning this auction. A simple yes or no from someone who knows would have been sufficient.

The original post was ok. I twas the junk after. And it was the 3rd thread I had to delete on it.

Posting pictures from a GL auction and asking questions based on said pictures is fine. Just dont say its from GL!!!

 

[jrou111]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[tsmall07]

So is it a complete kit? I can't find the other thread. I imagine it was deleted.

 

[PaFarmer]

I posted yesterday regarding an item with a specific question. There was no collusion and no conspiracy in my post, but my post and the other posts in the thread were extensively edited and then the whole thread deleted. I asked a simple question. The specific question was later answered in another deleted thread, which thankfully I saw before that thread was also deleted. It is the mods prerogative to edit as they see fit, I just don't happen to agree.

As far as folks offering legal opinions, do some research on the "unauthorized practice of law" and accusations about unlawful acts, check out libel and slander, and leave the legal opinions to the lawyers.

 

[CUCVFAN]

I don't recall any accusations of anything other than people not following the site rules.

 

[drgreg]

I

As far as folks offering legal opinions, do some research on the "unauthorized practice of law" and accusations about unlawful acts, check out libel and slander, and leave the legal opinions to the lawyers.

This site really does not need this!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Elwenil]

Rules are rules folks. All the fussing about this and that doesn't matter. From the seller's point of view, if someone says "I am going to by this lot of part A" and three other people say "When you get them, I will buy a few off you", the seller is going to consider all 4 people as interested parties and potential bidders on the item. You will never prove that you never intended to bid and they will never prove that you did but they don't have to. They can ban you for pretty much anything as they see fit. The Steel Soldiers site certainly does not want to be saddled with the lawsuit or potential criminal charges for providing a forum for this sort of thing to take place. While the individuals that commit such crimes will rarely be prosecuted, businesses and public forums most likely will as examples to the buying public. Chris and Mike's rules are justified in protecting the site, themselves and the other members here. Pushing against them because you feel slighted somehow is not the mature thing to do. Realize that SS has to err on the side of caution and let it go and try to do better next time.

Also, I don't think anyone here is claiming to be a legal professional. The information and advice that has been posted here in support of the anti-collusion rule is sound and helpful to the discussion. Trying to take a swipe at people who are trying to help is not how things are normally done here at SS. When people are trying to help, pay attention as you may be the next guy who needs their help down the road. Be respectful to other members and have a nice day.

 

[Blake]

If it was not for this post, I would have never seen the power steering kits. I appreciate the heads up and I will certainly bid hard on them!

thanks guys!

 

[PaFarmer]

I am a lawyer, but I am not offering legal advice. Bid fixing via collusion at a live auction, with few bidders, like in the cited cases, is relatively easy and easily caught.

This site is a great resource, I would hate to see anything harm the site, much less something I did. The site has its policies, this thread makes them more clear. But I think there should be some commonsense applied. It would be pretty difficult to fix prices via collusion on an internet auction like Ebay or GL, you could agree with everyone you know to bid on this or that, but anyone with a computer and account on those sites is free to bid against you and your "co-conspiritors" and those other bidders will determine the market price. Good luck getting everyone on the world wide web on the same page, if you can do that you can solve world peace. I do not believe that anyone in any of those deleted posts was trying to fix the bid price. I took some offense at some of the negative comments. I argue for a living, so maybe it is just a hazard of the occupation.

 

[drgreg]

Now I'm glad I didn't say anything bad about Lawyers

 

[Bushman5000]

This place used to be good fun and a great resource. If I can't even ask simple questions like "full kit or random parts", I don't think I'll be coming on here as much. Deleting whole threads because someone says something out of turn is asinine. Seems to me deleting the single offending post would be much more effective.

-My 2 cents

 

[mangus580]

This place used to be good fun and a great resource. If I can't even ask simple questions like "full kit or random parts", I don't think I'll be coming on here as much. Deleting whole threads because someone says something out of turn is asinine. Seems to me deleting the single offending post would be much more effective.

-My 2 cents

then dont....

You are saying I should spend 15-20 minutes trying to salvage a thread that has a bunch of crappy posts in it?

Ask the simple question... post the pictures... dont speak of where they came from.

Pretty simple isnt it?