- 2,520
- 18
- 38
- Location
- San Angelo, Tx USA Planet Earth
If this has been posted before, please delete this.
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/
-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Biodiesel manufacturing on the cheap
- Thread starter wallew
- Start date
mangus580
New member
- 6,010
- 282
- 0
- Location
- Western NY
Wallew, thats exactly what I use 
I dont think the link has been posted here before though.
I dont think the link has been posted here before though.
- 10,350
- 75
- 48
- Location
- Meadows of Dan, Virginia
If that's an "appleseed", I must be using the "core".
Two plastic storage tubs and a stirring stick....
Two plastic storage tubs and a stirring stick....
- 2,520
- 18
- 38
- Location
- San Angelo, Tx USA Planet Earth
Bjorn,
I figured YOU of all people would be using this! Parts are less than three hundred (assuming you can find a fairly cheap water heater - new ones at the Lowes here start at about $125).
Mangus580,
How do you like using this setup? Is it easy to use or no? DrFoster says that his wife (who works for Sysco - sp?) can help find a good source of WVO. This is EXACTLY what I'm considering.
And I had a long talk with RandyLBarnes last night. He may have a 100+ gallon fuel tank that was taken off a wrecked International rig that I can have. He was just going to sell it for salvage price of the aluminum. Says it has a 'dent' in it. Like I care. That would work well in the front of the bed of my deuce for my WVO for long trips.
Now if I can only find ONE fuel tank for the left side of the deuce, I'll be set. I'm still looking if anyone come across one, PLEASE speak up.
I figured YOU of all people would be using this! Parts are less than three hundred (assuming you can find a fairly cheap water heater - new ones at the Lowes here start at about $125).
Mangus580,
How do you like using this setup? Is it easy to use or no? DrFoster says that his wife (who works for Sysco - sp?) can help find a good source of WVO. This is EXACTLY what I'm considering.
And I had a long talk with RandyLBarnes last night. He may have a 100+ gallon fuel tank that was taken off a wrecked International rig that I can have. He was just going to sell it for salvage price of the aluminum. Says it has a 'dent' in it. Like I care. That would work well in the front of the bed of my deuce for my WVO for long trips.
Now if I can only find ONE fuel tank for the left side of the deuce, I'll be set. I'm still looking if anyone come across one, PLEASE speak up.
mangus580
New member
- 6,010
- 282
- 0
- Location
- Western NY
It works ok... I have some design flaws (that I really think they all have) that I need to work through. One thing they dont mention, is you really want your pipes all off the ground by probably 2-3 feet.... mine is only 6". Another thing is, it would be best to use a manifold type arrangement for the 'in and out' hoses.... as switching hoses for short/long lenghts can get messy.
- 2,520
- 18
- 38
- Location
- San Angelo, Tx USA Planet Earth
Mangus,
So, it sounds like WE need to do a minor redesign and post it here? I concur that you should be opening/closing a valve instead of 'swapping' a hose or hoses. I have no problem with raising things up off the ground. That keeps me from having to bend over all the time to work on it, which as far as I'm concerned is a good thing.
We will definately have to put our heads together for this one. I have the idea of what you are talking about, but will need some hard drawn plans to work it out.
I will HAPPILY be the test mule for this project as using biodiesel was but ONE reason why I bought the deuce. I've got to hook up the FDC again, as mine currently has the 'diesel only' conversion.
Plus I want to build a concrete floored shed to house all this stuff in, along with my fuel barrels and jerry cans. My current shed is only about twenty feet from the house. A LITTLE TOO CLOSE if you ask me for fuel storage.
Of course, my reloading armory is in my basement, so ....
So, it sounds like WE need to do a minor redesign and post it here? I concur that you should be opening/closing a valve instead of 'swapping' a hose or hoses. I have no problem with raising things up off the ground. That keeps me from having to bend over all the time to work on it, which as far as I'm concerned is a good thing.
We will definately have to put our heads together for this one. I have the idea of what you are talking about, but will need some hard drawn plans to work it out.
I will HAPPILY be the test mule for this project as using biodiesel was but ONE reason why I bought the deuce. I've got to hook up the FDC again, as mine currently has the 'diesel only' conversion.
Plus I want to build a concrete floored shed to house all this stuff in, along with my fuel barrels and jerry cans. My current shed is only about twenty feet from the house. A LITTLE TOO CLOSE if you ask me for fuel storage.
Of course, my reloading armory is in my basement, so ....
- 10,350
- 75
- 48
- Location
- Meadows of Dan, Virginia
Wallew, the tubs work great for me, takes only a couple of hours to process 20 gallons of BD and I like to save money from the get-go, not spend hundreds to save much later, if at all.
The key to success here is to process the oil while it's still hot from the restaurant, no further heating required.
About the FDC, if you want to read the article about biodiesel in the latest issue of MVM, then you'll see that you are better off with the FDC bypassed when using biodiesel. The FDC actually reduces the fuel delivery for BD when the engine should have more to keep the power output the same as for petro diesel.
It's explained in the article.
The key to success here is to process the oil while it's still hot from the restaurant, no further heating required.
About the FDC, if you want to read the article about biodiesel in the latest issue of MVM, then you'll see that you are better off with the FDC bypassed when using biodiesel. The FDC actually reduces the fuel delivery for BD when the engine should have more to keep the power output the same as for petro diesel.
It's explained in the article.
CGarbee
Well-known member
- 2,472
- 552
- 113
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
I use an applesead and figured out that bit about the extra manifolds and getting it higher up just by looking at the setup... and by looking at a few of the links provided showing how other folks assembled their verisons on the page... GirlMark is actually going to be holding a few classes and siminars in the VA, NC, SC, GA area in the next month (ones just up the road from me are already full with an extensive waiting list) and she mentions the same redesigns on a few of the forums that she is active on...
My biggest problem is getting enough decent quality used oil... A lot of the places in my area are getting paid by the waste haulers for the used oil, and I'm trying to feed three vehicles... (my reactor is based on a 80gal hot water heater...).
My biggest problem is getting enough decent quality used oil... A lot of the places in my area are getting paid by the waste haulers for the used oil, and I'm trying to feed three vehicles... (my reactor is based on a 80gal hot water heater...).
colyork
Member
- 577
- 0
- 16
- Location
- dexter maine
I am glad that someone reposte this because i have wanted to set up a system for bio,but the commercail units are too muck money
DrFoster
New member
- 423
- 0
- 0
- Location
- Cheyenne, WY & Condado, PR
WALLEW, sounds like you need my chemistry background. Call anytime.
This procedure is called transesterification, similar to saponification. Sound familiar? Saponification is soap making. To make soap you take a transfatty acid or triglyceride (oil or kitchen grease) and blend it with a solution of sodium hydroxide (NaOH, caustic soda or lye) and water. This reaction causes the ester chains to separate from the glycerine. These ester chains are what becomes the soap. They're also called lipids. Their unique characteristic of being attracted to polar molecules such as water on one end and to non-polar molecules like oil on the other end is what makes them effective as soap.
In transesterification, lye and methanol are mixed to create sodium methoxide (Na+ CH3O-). When mixed in with the WVO this strong polar-bonded chemical breaks the transfatty acid into glycerine and also ester chains (biodiesel), along with some soap if you're not careful. The esters become methyl esters. They would be ethyl esters if reacted with booze (ethanol /ETOH) instead of methanol.
So how easy is it?
Filter the WVO.
Heat the WVO to remove water.
Perform a small titration on a small batch to see how much catalyst (DRY lye) you need for the entire solution. [EDIT - you'll need to do a ph test here]
Combine the lye and methanol to create sodium methoxide inside of the WVO tank in about a 20% mix of the total volume of WVO.
Slowly stir, this reaction probably takes an hour, the transesterification process separates the methyl esters from the glycerine. The CH3O of the methanol then caps off the ester chains and OH from the NaOH (lye) stabilizes the glycerine.
(NOTE) This appears to be an EXOTHERMIC reaction, and it will give off heat. this is good, because you can decant the glycerine (brown stuff) from the amber colored fuel. If it gets too cool, I bet it would solidify and you'd have to reheat it to decant it.
Hope that helps some...
This procedure is called transesterification, similar to saponification. Sound familiar? Saponification is soap making. To make soap you take a transfatty acid or triglyceride (oil or kitchen grease) and blend it with a solution of sodium hydroxide (NaOH, caustic soda or lye) and water. This reaction causes the ester chains to separate from the glycerine. These ester chains are what becomes the soap. They're also called lipids. Their unique characteristic of being attracted to polar molecules such as water on one end and to non-polar molecules like oil on the other end is what makes them effective as soap.
In transesterification, lye and methanol are mixed to create sodium methoxide (Na+ CH3O-). When mixed in with the WVO this strong polar-bonded chemical breaks the transfatty acid into glycerine and also ester chains (biodiesel), along with some soap if you're not careful. The esters become methyl esters. They would be ethyl esters if reacted with booze (ethanol /ETOH) instead of methanol.
So how easy is it?
Filter the WVO.
Heat the WVO to remove water.
Perform a small titration on a small batch to see how much catalyst (DRY lye) you need for the entire solution. [EDIT - you'll need to do a ph test here]
Combine the lye and methanol to create sodium methoxide inside of the WVO tank in about a 20% mix of the total volume of WVO.
Slowly stir, this reaction probably takes an hour, the transesterification process separates the methyl esters from the glycerine. The CH3O of the methanol then caps off the ester chains and OH from the NaOH (lye) stabilizes the glycerine.
(NOTE) This appears to be an EXOTHERMIC reaction, and it will give off heat. this is good, because you can decant the glycerine (brown stuff) from the amber colored fuel. If it gets too cool, I bet it would solidify and you'd have to reheat it to decant it.
Hope that helps some...
DrFoster
New member
- 423
- 0
- 0
- Location
- Cheyenne, WY & Condado, PR
I will be more than happy to help you set up a small lab and the proper equipment. Most importantly, the SAFETY gear!
I wouldn't reccomend making this indoors, unless it was a shed with awesome ventilation.
I wouldn't reccomend making this indoors, unless it was a shed with awesome ventilation.
mangus580
New member
- 6,010
- 282
- 0
- Location
- Western NY
Dr.... if you use KOH instead of NaOH, the glycerine does not solidify.... although, you need to use more of it...
DrFoster
New member
- 423
- 0
- 0
- Location
- Cheyenne, WY & Condado, PR
interesting point
DrFoster
New member
- 423
- 0
- 0
- Location
- Cheyenne, WY & Condado, PR
I'm thinking it would just be less hassle to use straight veggie oil. I've got a line on a heater / circulation system that stays at 90C via thermostat. That means with a little pre-heat, I could stop and start on WVO.
Just another project I suppose. I will finish the turbo kit before I get into WVO.
Just another project I suppose. I will finish the turbo kit before I get into WVO.
- 10,350
- 75
- 48
- Location
- Meadows of Dan, Virginia
With veggie oil and the deuce you have 3 filters to heat. Veggie oil is still more viscous than diesel when heated to 180 deg F and you almost certainly need to stop and start on petro diesel.
Usually the heat comes from the coolant, which means that the engine will have to run for a while before the veggie oil is hot enough to use = starting on diesel.
The multifuel takes its time to warm up at idle and you will probably not get above 160F in 1/2 hour or more even in the summer time.
Also, biodiesel is not suitable below freezing, hence my dual/heated tank project, which is complete except for some rerouting of the fuel lines. (See heated fuel tank thread).
It has been tested and works great. Got over 100 engine hours on biodiesel (over 1,700 miles).
Making biodiesel is relatively simple while filtering and dealing with used cooking oil is a real PITA. It must be heated just to filter it.
A lot has been posted on this subject, just go back several months (the images may not be there any longer, but the posts still exsist).
About glycerin from Sodium Hydroxide, yes it solidifies, but not right away. It can easily be poured from the processing containers even after a few days. When it hardens it's easy to handle for starting fires in the fireplace among other things.
Usually the heat comes from the coolant, which means that the engine will have to run for a while before the veggie oil is hot enough to use = starting on diesel.
The multifuel takes its time to warm up at idle and you will probably not get above 160F in 1/2 hour or more even in the summer time.
Also, biodiesel is not suitable below freezing, hence my dual/heated tank project, which is complete except for some rerouting of the fuel lines. (See heated fuel tank thread).
It has been tested and works great. Got over 100 engine hours on biodiesel (over 1,700 miles).
Making biodiesel is relatively simple while filtering and dealing with used cooking oil is a real PITA. It must be heated just to filter it.
A lot has been posted on this subject, just go back several months (the images may not be there any longer, but the posts still exsist).
About glycerin from Sodium Hydroxide, yes it solidifies, but not right away. It can easily be poured from the processing containers even after a few days. When it hardens it's easy to handle for starting fires in the fireplace among other things.
DrFoster
New member
- 423
- 0
- 0
- Location
- Cheyenne, WY & Condado, PR
That's a good idea for waste product.
As far as starting and stopping on dino I agree, except for that idea I had with the circulating pump or two, that have a bult in electric heater with thermostat, which would be great too. The only problem is that the pumps would have to be post-filter and the returns would be loooong back into the tanks. The good part about that heater is I could either switch it to on board batteries for morning warm up or over to 110 when around a genny or home. I'd still retain a diesel tank, of course. Never fool with Murphy!
As far as starting and stopping on dino I agree, except for that idea I had with the circulating pump or two, that have a bult in electric heater with thermostat, which would be great too. The only problem is that the pumps would have to be post-filter and the returns would be loooong back into the tanks. The good part about that heater is I could either switch it to on board batteries for morning warm up or over to 110 when around a genny or home. I'd still retain a diesel tank, of course. Never fool with Murphy!