Block Heater Install

[nyoffroad]

I replaced a block heater on my old civie 6.2 years ago and the the old timers at the auto parts store told me that the Katz heater were junk! Now I've delt with these guys for years selling them body parts and we're always upfront with each other. They ended up getting me (IIRC) an AC/Delco unit, drove that truck for years after that and it never leaked and always worked!

 

[WARWAG]

-Hanley

I've just finished day 2 driving with mine installed and no leaks as of yet, quite surprised, I did not follow the tightening instructions as I do not have a torque wrench that will reliably read that low just used a nut driver and figured I probably couldn't over tighten it that way. Wish you the best of luck with yours I would like to say I will be able to comment on how well it works tomorrow but she decided today was the day to eat a rear end apparently had smoke/steam shooting out of where the pinion assembly bolts in and doesn't seem to want to move anymore..... and here I was thinking I would be doing glow plugs tomorrow

That just sucks.

 

[rsh4364]

Well sounds like I did indeed just get overzealous most likely, sadly not uncommon. At any rate the new one is supposed to get here tomorrow so shall see, looking forward to seeing the tank heater install was going to do one of those but could not for the life of me figure out how the heat was going to get into the engine. I understand a thermosiphon well spent a large amount of school learning why they work just don't see how the hot water wont just go out the heater hose and into the radiator?

No expert but thinking tank style heater wont heat coolant hot enough to open thermostat to release coolant to radiator,just kinda spurts hot coolant into heater core and block.

 

[Nuke113]

My questions about the flow of that tank heater wasn't that it would open the thermostat but that it would run into the heater core and into the radiator that way instead of into the engine block since our trucks don't have a heater valve or anything. By all means if some of yall are running it that way and it works I'll take that as evidence and move on but in my head when shopping it just didn't work.

 

[Sharecropper]

I will respectfully offer my opinion regarding adding heat to the 6.2. There are other threads which discuss adding heat to the larger engines, however my comments pertain to our CUCV engines.

Having owned and operated diesel engines for over 40 years, first with construction and grading equipment and then with my personal vehicles beginning with a 1985 K30 truck, I have come to some conclusions in regards to cold weather starting. Years ago I used freeze-plug type block heaters exclusively for starts in cold weather. These worked great for my front end loader and larger trucks. While these indeed improve starting by inducing BTUs into the engine block, which is essential for diesel fuel combustion, they do nothing regarding oil viscosity when installed in a 6.2. All engines have oil pans, and all excess oil throughout the engine drains to the pan when the engine is shut down during nighttime. This oil then sits in the pan and cools to ambient temperature and stays that way until the engine is started in the morning. Even with freeze-plug block heaters and/or tank-type heaters, which keep the engine block warm (or warmer than ambient air), the oil in the pan stays at ambient temperature. All motor oil produced from natural crude decreases in viscosity on a sliding scale equal to temperature. The colder it gets, the thicker it becomes. And the thicker it gets, the more difficult it is to be pumped (by the engine oil pump) up through the oil passages. The CUCV TM recommends 15w40 oil. What this means is, at a normal engine operating temperature of 210 degrees, the oil will have a viscosity of 40. At colder temperatures, the oil will have the viscosity of 15. What is unclear is, "How Cold?". There is a good article on this subject at http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

I now believe it is more important to warm the oil in the pan than to warm the engine block, or better yet, to do both. There are currently available three different methods of warming the oil in the pan, 1.)- dipstick heaters, 2.)- magnetic heaters which are manually attached and removed from the pan, and 3.)- a heating pad which is permanently attached to the exterior surface of the oil pan at the lowest point. Although I have never used a dipstick heater, I have heard and read comments that these devices are not very efficient and do not add sufficient BTUs to the oil, especially during extremely cold temperatures. Consequently I would not use this type. The magnetic type heaters work excellent, however they are somewhat large and must be manually attached and removed by hand, which means you are going to be laying in the snow or on a cold ground twice a day to use them. The third type, and the type I plan to install on my M1028, is the heating pad that is permanently attached to the oil pan. I plan on installing a Canadian Polar Pad on my oil pan, transmission pan, and transfer case, and wire them all together http://www.canadianpolarpad.com/installation.html . I have used these pad heaters in the past with excellent results.

In summary, I believe the best (and least expensive) setup to assure quick and safe starts in cold weather is to install the Polar Pad and 2 GM OEM freeze-plug heaters, one on each side of the engine. Just my 2 cents.

Hope this helps.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

I find that 5w40 Rotella helps a lot in the winter as well.

 

[Csm Davis]

There is also a oil filter wrap heater.

 

[M1009 NEWBEE 2013]

Thanks for the updates Nuke and the write up sharecropper, I went and bought the 150W oil pan heater at autozone, this weekend, they had an entire Kats display, with magnets, tank types, freeze plug types and all kinds of other wraps and heaters. I bought the oil pan "stick-on" type and (2) freeze plug types, the Kats 11612 and the 11607, as apparently both will work. The 612 and 607 are (both 41MM and are 600watts) (I believe) but the 612 had a longer element and 607 shorter. Anyway, given the info in all the previous threads, I thought I should make sure I'm covered and bought 2 of them. I installed the oil pan stick-on heater yesterday (the cord was barely long enough to be routed out, at the slave cable plug. If I would not have checked, before cleaning up the pan and sticking it on, it may not have reached. I'm glad I did check first). I will tackle the freeze plug this weekend and will update you on how it goes. I have never done one before. I hope they hold (at least one of them).

 

[Sharecropper]

Hey M1009 Newbie - it would be helpful to many viewers if you could post some photos of your install.

 

[00Buck]

I installed a Zerostart block heater in my 87 1028 earlier this fall and all in all it went off without a hitch. I had never done one before and was reluctant to knock out the plug, but knew it needed to be done. I mounted mine with the element pointed up, but apparently it can be in either position. When installing the heater I noticed it doesn't sit inside (flush) with the block. Make sure you debur the hole and lube the Oring with antifreeze. When I tightened the bolt, I didn't have a torque wrench to spec; so I used a nutdriver and snugged it tight. Knock on wood I have not had any issues, and it starts so much easier. I don't have any knowledge of Katz other than that was the one I bought initially. Had to return it after going online and realizing the parts kid sold me the wrong one. Zerostart had better reviews and was a little cheaper I think.

 

[Chaos333]

Nuke,

I had no idea where the block heater went but thanks to your pics I was able to figure it out. I went with zerostart because they seemed to have better reviews like the poster above me said. I don't have any leaks but I will be running it for a few days before I plug it in like another member suggested to get the air bubbles out. Just in case someone is curious the zerostart did fit nice and snug and I have the heating element pointing up instead of pointing to the side.

On a side note that freeze plug was a total pain to remove but this vid did help :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cru1X9hbZ20

 

[Nuke113]

Chaos,

Glad to hear that you got it in and that I was of some help plan on updating this once I plug it in and see whether or not my 2nd Kats works or not but currently the truck is waiting on a pinion rebuild slightly farther than the available extension cords reach.

 

[Chaos333]

Chaos,

Glad to hear that you got it in and that I was of some help plan on updating this once I plug it in and see whether or not my 2nd Kats works or not but currently the truck is waiting on a pinion rebuild slightly farther than the available extension cords reach.

I used the block heater for the first time today and what a difference it made. When it is 50 degrease out it usually takes two attempts to get it started but this morning it was in the 20's and it started right up on the first try. I do feel your pain though, right after I got the block heater in my transmission stopped shifting correctly. It is one thing after another with these trucks.

One other tip that might help someone out. The block heater instructions say to tighten the locking screw to a maximum torque of 20-25 in lbs. As many have said here that they did not have a torque wrench small enough to do this. I used a borka torque wrench, it is used for mounting optics on rifles and other gunsmithing jobs that need a torque wrench but it really worked great for that. If anyone is interested here is the web site: http://www.borkatools.com/pages/atd644b/atd644b.html

 

[Chaos333]

Hey M1009 Newbie - it would be helpful to many viewers if you could post some photos of your install.

Take a look at the pics Nuke posted. It would look just the same if I took pics. Those freeze plugs are on the drivers side. I printed them out and crawled under the truck and easily found them. I put mine in the same plug that Nuke did and it really worked for me.

 

[Nuke113]

Ok so now if we can get a third member to install one and have some type of drivetrain failure I think we can confirm that installing a block heater is one of the worst things you can do on these trucks. Hope the transmission is just the usual vacuum suspects those are not too bad to fix.

 

[Chaos333]

Ok so now if we can get a third member to install one and have some type of drivetrain failure I think we can confirm that installing a block heater is one of the worst things you can do on these trucks. Hope the transmission is just the usual vacuum suspects those are not too bad to fix.

I went through transmission troubleshooting in the TM and my vacuum hoses are bad so I am trying to find a part number for those at the moment. Hopefully that is it.

 

[Aerialfred]

Ok so now if we can get a third member to install one and have some type of drivetrain failure I think we can confirm that installing a block heater is one of the worst things you can do on these trucks. Hope the transmission is just the usual vacuum suspects those are not too bad to fix.

I was planning on installing one, but now I think I will wait. I don't have a dry place to have mine pulled into so I can fix the aftereffects of a tranny failure!

In all seriousness though, best of luck with yours. I hope it is something simple AND cheap!

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Ok so now if we can get a third member to install one and have some type of drivetrain failure I think we can confirm that installing a block heater is one of the worst things you can do on these trucks. Hope the transmission is just the usual vacuum suspects those are not too bad to fix.

Are you saying that you think a block heater installation caused a transmission failure???

 

[Nuke113]

Are you saying that you think a block heater installation caused a transmission failure???

Only as a joke good sir.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Oh, that's a relief!


<sigh>

I guess I'm spending too much time on Jeep forums. The ignorance and stupidity of the kids there defies belief. And most of them are completely unteachable.