• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Bobbed m35 with air bag suspension

"For extra lights and electronics add a auxiliary 12 volt system with its own alternator and battery."

I went a different route... I purchased a 24v to 12v transformer from ebay which takes care of all my in cab accessories. I'm a gadget guy, and being an ex oilfield service tech, I'm used to having my laptop-tablet-cell phone boosters-cell cradles all in front of me. Our trucks were our office...

As far as lights, I continued to use 12v lights, but just in series=24v. For bigger lights I went with 24v LED's
 
RHudson85: are you somehow controlling the air pressure to the bags? My son and I bagged a full size truck and from the cab I would control the ride of the truck. It was an easy Front/Rear set up, controlled by (2) switches,(4) 3/4" valves, this helped when I had my bike or a load in the bed. I'm curious if with these big military trucks it would make a difference. I'm also curious if the bags are remotely controlled do you use an extra air tank just for the bags. My trucks are my daily drivers.
 

crazywelder72

New member
701
2
0
Location
Winchester Ma
Oh and to answer your other question, NO you do not need torsion bars. I can't think of why you would. One more thing, you may have to come up with something else for your steering. The air bag perches on the front axle will more than likely interfere with your steering arm coming off the knuckle. I had full hydro, and what a joke that was. If it was a trail rig only that would be fine, but full hyrdo driving down the road is asking to get pulled over for drunk driving.
i think he just said torsion bars since we were discussing them in the rear. I know he meant linkages.

the steering arm on the left front of the axle isn't connected to anything because of the full hydraulic steering. my truck actually tracks prety nicely, just bouncy. I live in a disgustingly overpopulated area surrounded by prius's and bmw's. I haven't clipped any yet.
 
I had full hydro, and what a joke that was. If it was a trail rig only that would be fine, but full hyrdo driving down the road is asking to get pulled over for drunk driving.[/QUOTE]

Your the first I've heard say that. I did suspect it though, and that's why I've resisted full hydro. Still pondering which type of power steering to go with
 

Deucemedic

New member
6
0
0
Location
Knoxville/tn
Repo3004, how did the kights look after you changed them out, brightness wise? And has anyone did the rear lights yet? And has anyone got pictures of refitting the frount with bags? Thats the next step after we BoB it. And what is the consensus about where to get good cheap parts, EBAY, C&C junkyards? Im redoing the cab so i need seals and windows that arent to teriably expensive.
 

RHudson85

Member
31
0
6
Location
Tx
For my bags there is 1 hadley height control valve for each bag. I have 2 switches in the cab, one switch raises the front of the truck and one switch raises the back of the truck. To begin to lift the front it takes about 100 psi. And for the back I'd say it takes 70 psi or so. I suppose you could put a regulator somewhere in line to control the pressure.

As for air storage, I have a 7 gallon up under the truck and 2 3 gallons on the drivers side outside the frame. I have 2 9 gallons that I want to replace all the current tanks with, but its all one common system.

My steering may be bad due to the poor suspension design. The trackbar that is behind the axle is not near enough to keep the axle centered under the frame. After putting another track bar in front of the axle, it was a major improvment, but I was never able to drive it with the new trackbar as I pulled out the old cylinder in preparation for the new one. Your buddy may have been talking about running some sway bars, they are a must, otherwise it will literally be like floating on air. Mine was built with some massive 1/2 heims so I cant imagine how they broke trying to stabilize a 13,000 lb truck. :grin:
 

RHudson85

Member
31
0
6
Location
Tx
Sorry to burst your bubble, but all I have are pictures of the brackets for the steering box and track bar. I'm currently offshore so there is no way for me to get other pictures. Plus I was really waiting until I get all the new steering installed.
 

plym49

Well-known member
1,164
171
63
Location
TX USA
I have bags on the front of my truck. It was built by C and C. I'm in the middle of putting crossover steering on it. When I am done, I will post some pics. If you are going to bags in the front of your truck I would reccommend dual track bars. One going in each direction, it will really stiffen up the sway. I found that out when I went to put my power steering box in.
I am not sure what you mean by track bars. If you mean Panhard bars, using two - one pointing each way - will not work as all that just locks up the suspension (think a bridge truss). Or, did you mean trailing arms? (You still would need a Panhard bar.)
 

RHudson85

Member
31
0
6
Location
Tx
Trackbar, Panhard bar, same thing. Yes, you would think it would lock the axle as one pushes one way and one pushes the other way. I can assure you that it does not coause a problem the truck has enough weight that it is not a factor. I am not sure if it flexes a bit when it drops down or what. The new track bar I built was out out 3/8, and 5/8 plate and the tube is 2" 1/4" wall so its extremely heavy duty As long as you put the bar at the same angle when the airbags are deflated as when they are inflated, it will push the axle but will bring it back to neutral.
 

mudguppy

New member
1,587
15
0
Location
duncan, sc
... I had full hydro, and what a joke that was. If it was a trail rig only that would be fine, but full hyrdo driving down the road is asking to get pulled over for drunk driving.
i'm curious to know what hydraulic components were integrated into your steering system. i have a full hydro system from PSC; as a system designed to work together, its flawless and confident down the highway at interstate speeds. i've also not heard of other reports of wandering or non-confidence from similarly designed systems.



.... One going in each direction, it will really stiffen up the sway. ...
... Yes, you would think it would lock the axle as one pushes one way and one pushes the other way. I can assure you that it does not coause a problem the truck has enough weight that it is not a factor. ...
yeah, so what you're describing is called mechanical bind. there are likely serious problems with your suspension, probably from design.

i remember seeing pictures of that suspension job that C&C did. doesn't look like much math went into it. i'd bet that your handling quirks are centered around the suspension and not the steering system itself.
 

RHudson85

Member
31
0
6
Location
Tx
Haha. I can assure you there was NO MATH involved. It was a homemade deal. With both bars the truck actually raises and drops like normal. Yes I have the PSC kit as well, and it tends to wander, I'm sure some of it is suspension, but I do believe that some of it is the steering itself. I have a 1 ton gear that I will be mounting inside the frame and then using the 3" cylinder for the assist. The 1 ton gear by itself is enough to turn the truck, but eventually I think it will break the sector shaft. With the 3" cylinder tied in, the steering box does almost no work at all yet I will still have a mechanical connection between steering wheel and tires which makes me feel MUCH safer. I attached a picture as kind of a teaser until I get the whole thing done and I can open my own thread.
 

Attachments

plym49

Well-known member
1,164
171
63
Location
TX USA
Trackbar, Panhard bar, same thing. Yes, you would think it would lock the axle as one pushes one way and one pushes the other way. I can assure you that it does not coause a problem the truck has enough weight that it is not a factor. I am not sure if it flexes a bit when it drops down or what. The new track bar I built was out out 3/8, and 5/8 plate and the tube is 2" 1/4" wall so its extremely heavy duty As long as you put the bar at the same angle when the airbags are deflated as when they are inflated, it will push the axle but will bring it back to neutral.
It is hardly best practice to have a double panhard bar (one each way). Doing so introduces interference motion.

When the suspension cycles up and down, one or more of the following is happening: the frame rails themselves are being flexed outwards and inwards, the panhard bars are flexing, the panhard bar mounts are flexing, or, if they are resilient enough, the panhard bar bushings are alternately compressed one way and the other.

Regardless, none of those components are designed to handle those sorts of loads, and eventually something will fatigue and break. If a panhard bar or mount breaks, that is a definite inconvenience depending on circumstances. If you frame cracks open, well, that would really be unfortunate. With bars as beefy as you describe, you might well be flexing the frame out and in. In terms of strength from most to least, the pecking order should be frame, panhard mounts, panhard bar (not bars, just 1) and then the panhard bar bushings.

In the mean time, the suspension is stiffer than it should be due to the interference motion, which one might misinterpret as a 'nice firm ride'. Until something goes t1ts up.

With one panhard bar, as the suspension moves up and down the axle wiggles a bit side to side. The control arm bushings accommodate this movement as the axle actually moves slightly out of the centerline of the vehicle..

With double panhard bars, the axle cannot wiggle - if one bar tries to pull the axle to the left, the other one resists, keeping the axle centered. But, just as you say, the axle is going up and down and it is a heavy vehicle. Therefore, and there is no maybe about it, one or more components are deflecting (being bent back and forth). This might be slight, but repeated thousands of times as you drive the truck, eventually the metal will fatigue and crack.

Strongly suggest you remove one of them.
 
Last edited:

RHudson85

Member
31
0
6
Location
Tx
I understand your point fully. However, going to your strength order, I do not believe that the frame is stout enough so that is where I need the extra bar. Eventually I may put them going the same direction (I want to lift the truck another 2" or so). The other problem is that the current bar goes down from pass to driver side. The bar to prevent "body sway" from the steering gear MUST go the same direction as the drag link and at as close to the same angle as possible. I sat and thought this over for hours and not really having a whole lot to choose from this was what I came up with to be the best option. As for the flexing, its not as if the truck has long travel suspension or is going to be crawling rocks where the suspension travel will start tweaking and flexing parts. The only major suspension travel occurs when the airbags are inflated and deflated. When I was lowering and raising the truck with both bars installed there was no binding and everything went VERY smoothly.


I had some "death wobble" at around 60 mph. I have a slight suspicion that it may now be gone. I'm really looking forward to getting it done and seeing how everything performs.
 
DeuceMedic...

Repo3004, how did the lights look after you changed them out, brightness wise? And has anyone did the rear lights yet? And has anyone got pictures of refitting the frount with bags? Thats the next step after we BoB it. And what is the consensus about where to get good cheap parts, EBAY, C&C junkyards? Im redoing the cab so i need seals and windows that arent to teriably expensive.
The 24v Truck-Lite LED headlights ARE awesome! It's a very bright clear light. Driving up here in ND, the highways and roads are sooo long and flat, I was looking for something to light up the area. I've been watching eBay for awhile and finally picked up (2) sets of used LED headlights. I couldn't justify the $400 a (NEW) headlight so I was patient and kept looking for a set of used ones.

I picked up a set of LED driving/spot lights on here from SRODOCKER, these are AlSO fricking bright :) There're about the same size of the 7" headlights. They're heavy duty lights, I'm more then happy. In my photo albums I did a few write ups on using 12v interior lights.

In my bed I'm going to use the 3 LED row LED tape and secure it to the bows, this will light up my interior bed like it's day. I work out of my truck, day and night so I want light when I need it...

In my opinion LED's are the only way to go...
 

plym49

Well-known member
1,164
171
63
Location
TX USA
I understand your point fully. However, going to your strength order, I do not believe that the frame is stout enough so that is where I need the extra bar. Eventually I may put them going the same direction (I want to lift the truck another 2" or so). The other problem is that the current bar goes down from pass to driver side. The bar to prevent "body sway" from the steering gear MUST go the same direction as the drag link and at as close to the same angle as possible. I sat and thought this over for hours and not really having a whole lot to choose from this was what I came up with to be the best option. As for the flexing, its not as if the truck has long travel suspension or is going to be crawling rocks where the suspension travel will start tweaking and flexing parts. The only major suspension travel occurs when the airbags are inflated and deflated. When I was lowering and raising the truck with both bars installed there was no binding and everything went VERY smoothly.


I had some "death wobble" at around 60 mph. I have a slight suspicion that it may now be gone. I'm really looking forward to getting it done and seeing how everything performs.
If you were able to set up a dial indicator on the various parts and cycle the suspension up and down - not an easy thing to pull off with big heavy truck parts - you'd be surprised at how many components were deflecting. If the geometry is set up to bind - aka interference motion - then components are deflecting. There is no maybe about it. They must deflect for the suspension to move. That you suspension only moves a little - the interference motion actually inhibits movement. Not the cleanest way to achieve a tight ride, for sure. If you want two, then they need to be exactly parallel, going in the same direction and the same ends on the frame and axle (not going the same way but crisscrossed).
 

beaubeau

New member
622
2
0
Location
Salisbury,N.H. 03268
Hey guys. I been away for a while. Got to get info from someone. I gor a Deuce and changed motors. I been around trks all my life. Im am a mechanic also. This Deuce will not start or rather keep running more ta=han 5secs. I got fuel all the way to the Inj. I bled them ant tightened them . Starts and runs for 5 seconds.. What am I missing here?
 

mudguppy

New member
1,587
15
0
Location
duncan, sc
... I had some "death wobble" at around 60 mph. I have a slight suspicion that it may now be gone. ...

not encouraging. you should have opened with that - 'death wobble' is suspension related, not steering.

also, the 1T steering box combined with the 3" double-ended ram is a bad idea. first, you cannot run a straight tie-rod from the two knuckles across the double-ended ram, which is where you'll want to attach a drag link. secondly, the 1T box will not flow enough fluid through it to adequately fill the cylinder; the steering box will be out-running the cylinder and you won't get very good steering response.

plus, without fixing the front suspension, you'll still have wander.

gzus your truck is dangerous. in my opinion, you just bought a very expensive off-road only truck.
 
8
0
0
Location
Snohomish Wa
I installed an air ride system from a 97 freightliner. It was pretty easy to install and it rides great. I am bobbing a friends truck with the same set up and when I get that one dont I have a 5 ton I am going to do the same thing to
Where are you finding These Freightliner Systems? Are they complete with springs,shocks,bags,brackets...etc?
Looks like a nice clean and functional system.
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks