Bobbing Questions

[Warthog]

Going to bob a Deuce and I have some questions.

If you have a choice, which would you use: 105 springs or Deuce front springs? Why

Some people have used the 105 frame or c-channel to raise the bed. Is it necessary?

Is it okay to have the bed right next to the cab? Why have some people put them so far back?

Thanks,

Warthog

 

[grounded]

FYI deuce front springs and M105 springs ARE THE EXACT SAME!!! only thing diffrent is the hangers.

 

[nk14zp]

I like the looks of a shortend body better than a 105 body.

 

[mtk]

You need a lift block on the 105 springs as they sit outside of the frame and the deuce front springs sit under the frame giving it the extra three inches of height

I think his point is that you need a lift block when using M105 spring mounts, but the springs themselves are the same as Deuce front springs.

 

[jcappeljr]

I just bobbed my deuce,used 105 springs with a 4" lift block. Truck sits fine.

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

Can the lift blocks be bought or must they be fabricated? Can anyone post some pics?

 

[Blythewoodjoe]

Well here's some thoughts.

Of the top of my head, I think the data plate in a deuce rates the front end at a little over 6000 pounds loaded or empty, off road or on road. When I use the front springs and hangers I consider the hangers and springs able to handle at least 6000 pounds under any conditions. I assume the axle is good for that.

If I recall correctly, the M105 trailer is rated at 1.5 tons off road and 3 tons (6000 pounds) on the hyway. If you are using the suspention parts from a trailer, I don't think you can feel confident that they are capable of handling more than 3000 pounds off road. I think they can handle more, but they are not rated for that if you use the data plates for rating purposes. The truck is only as good as the weakest part.

I am not an engineer and therefore can only figure these things using the information found the trucks or trailers. From my view, I can think of no reason NOT to use the deuce front end parts. It seems they are better suited to install on a TRUCK. I know lots of you guys are buying trailers and don't have access to front end parts but I would spent the few extra bucks and install the front end parts. The only thing I have to buy when re-using them is 20 bolts and nuts (8 of them are the drive shaft bolts, AKA free). No new u bolts or spacers and there is a place to put a shock that is designed for a shock.

Just some thought from the Assassin of Joy, Joe Trapp.

 

[Warthog]

Along my journeys in MV land I have acquired a couple of parts trucks. Between the two I have enough parts to make one good one, This is the one I am bobbing. The other one is givin up its front springs.

I bought a 105 for the bed. I will have a frame left over after the switch.

Here is a picture of both trucks. Guess which one is the donor....LOL

It's going to be RED like Santa's

 

[tm america]

what you doing with the frame from the m105 i could use one for a camper projecti'm putting together

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Here's a quick question from this very old thread. Why can't one simply cut the trailer down and weld the parts of trailer frame under the deuce frame? Seems like it would be the easiest way to get the height right..and no drilling of new holes anywhere in the deuce frame....

Maybe I'm missing something very obvious, because I haven't seen many folks do that.

 

[shannondeese]

That's a good question. I should have done that. I just cut my spring mounts from under the 105. It sure would have been easier to sling the 105 frame under the duece frame. Round 2 will be done that way unless someone tells me why not that make sence.

 

[tm america]

sometimes the easy way isnt the best or is it legal.many states have laws against double frames .its a saftey issue .if something comes lose you'll lose your brakes steering and most likely get in a accident and maybe even kill someone while youre at it.just get a front suspension from the front of a deuce everything will sit level and be safe

 

[tm america]

also welding on a deuce frame is illegal and unsafe since the frame is tempered steel and will crack after welding .even driiling can make it loose its temper so welding is a really bad idea and if dot catches you youll be hit with a heavy fine and forced to park the truck till you change the frame

 

[shannondeese]

Thanks. Rekon I'll be drilling and mounting with bolts and using lift blocks for now.

 

[Chinookpilot77]

I dont see how using a lift block is any "safer" than a double frame. Also, I didn't think that these frames were heat treated. However, if they are, bolting the frames together would be an alternative to welding. All that said, sure, front springs would be the best option, but I wont buy that a double frame is less safe than any other way the lift is being done.

 

[tm america]

they are temper or spring steel .they are made to twist and flex doubling the frame will cause a stress point where the frame goes back to being single even if its bolted together .this is the reason the front bed bolts are springs so the frame can flex without cracking.and i didnt say lift blocks are a good idea either they cause axle wrap and wheel hope not to mention the overload the spring when braking.double fromes and lift blocks in the front are illegal in most states for a good reason even drilling a tempered steel frame can cause enough heat to make it loose its temper and cause cracks

 

[Chinookpilot77]

So, bolting a frame to the bottom of the deuce frame is going to weaken the frame...I dont buy it. Mainly for two reasons. The stock bed on a deuce is bolted on, (the springs in the front aren't so it can float, must be for vibration, as the rest are bolted straight) and 2, because of all the people bolting the m105 frame to the top of the stock frame for trailer clearance.

Oh wait, then there is reason 3 with all the people using 16-20 tires and using another section of deuce frame for the proper lift...

Must my opinion. I'll post my pictures as soon as I'm done with it. I cut a M105 frame on either side of the spring mounts and i'm bolting it under my deuce frame in the next couple days.

 

[Bob H]

........(the springs in the front aren't so it can float, must be for vibration, as the rest are bolted straight)................

WTF? vibration?

The spring mounts on the front of the bed were engineered because the frame flexes between the front & rear axles during off camber situations off the highway.
Now on a bobbed deuce the flex would be less due to the removal of the rear most axle and well over a ton of weight.

Bolting a bed frame on top is different than attaching it underneath with the suspension attached to the added frame. Way different.

The above statements are just the opinion of an engineer, do what you want,

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Then what of the folks using frame sections to lift the truck a full 8"? That is commonly refered to on this board as "the right way" to do it. Just trying to understand the entirety of this issue.

See, here's my issue...

The stock deuce bed has 8 points of mounting, 4 on each side, (including the 2 spring bolts per side as 1 attachment point). So starting from front to back, we'll number them 1-4.

So, in my little pea brain, I look at the deuce and I think...ok...the frame can flex from the front axle all the way back past the springs bolts at attachment point number 1, to bolt number 2...but after that...the flex has to stop...there is no give at that joint and it is firmly attached to the bed, which looks to be far too sturdy to flex much at all...(besides the fact that this is roughly where the trundle suspension begins, would would act as a fulcrum to torsion anyway)

So, if I bolt a frame under the deuce frame at attachment points 2 and 3, how is that any different? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to wrap my head around it. Maybe if you are an engineer you could help me do that?

 

[Bob H]

There is a strip of wood between the bed and frame to absorb movement during frame flex.
Maybe we should describe the frame movement as twist. The point of maximum twist is centered between the front axle and the center of the rear supension. The amount of twist decreases to nothing as you move to the ends of the frame.
as I posted above, on a bobbed deuce the flex would be less due to the removal of the rear most axle and well over a ton of weight. the center of twist would also move 1' forward on the frame, assuming the remaining rear axle is kept in it's original position.


How far in front of bolt 2 will the front mount of the rear spring be?
Do you think the frame rails from a 105 are as strong as the deuce frame rails?
I haven't see these trucks with frame sections used for a lift, yet they are likely no longer street legal.

So you attach the 105 frame under the deuce frame.
Even a bobbed deuce frame will flex (twist) off roading, which will twist the 105 frame. the tempered deuce frame is designed to "sping back" straight. I would bet the 105 frame is not tempered and therefore when bent back and forth it will weaken and crack over time.
Are you planning on this being a street legal truck? Better check the laws & increase your liability coverage, because over time your 105 frame and rear axle could separate from the rest of the truck. (which is probably why there are laws against such things)

Off road only play toy that you're gonna keep? Sure why not, sounds a little easier to do.