Brake Inspections and Warnings

[Recovry4x4]

In light of my recent brake failure and findings I wanted to post this as a sticky. Folks, do regular brake inspections on your deuce. Check that brake fluid as much as you do the oil, could save a life. WARNING, for all you guys with older deuces I've found a potential problem. My 1953 Stude has a unique and apparently failure prone hold down design. The newer trucks had a shouldered bolt of sorts used as a hold down. Its bolted through the backing plate to insure your shoes stay put. The ones on my truck utilize a stud affixed to the backing plate which has a flat washer on the shoe and is held in place by a cotter pin. Mine blew apart and tore up some stuff with it. I'll be removing the studs and replacing them with the shouldered bolts. The TM 9-8022 also makes reference to a 3rd design using the bendable horse shoe washers. Better that cotter pins, not as good as bolts. I encourage every deuce owner to do a brake check. Add it to a regular service or at least yearly as Ryan said. Be careful!

See this thread for Airpack rebuild and warnings
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8063

 

[gringeltaube]

Totally agree, Kenny. I was about to write something very similar. Safety first!
Inspecting and improving the braking capability and everything related to it should be top of the list of all possible to does & improvements.
The good thing is that those old hold down bolts are very hard to find items! I never had them in any of all trucks I worked on, even a few '52s I dismantled came with the newer (upgraded?) bolt system. See pics below. The new system takes one short(w/o) and one long bolt, w/spring for every shoe.
It is easy for anybody to know from the outside what style it has. Just make sure there are for four 5/16" nuts (1/2" wrench) on the back side of the backing plate.

Gerhard

 

[Desert Rat]

GT,

Thanks for the pics! I'm sure everyone will benefit from them! I'm tearing into the five ton brake system and 'Storm's when I get back home with new (to me) equipment to help me with the job.

 

[gringeltaube]

Hope I wasn't to fast! Kenny, how are those old design studs mounted to the backing plate? If they are also held in place by 5/16 nuts it would be impossible to know without ripping everything apart.

 

[devilman96]

Wanna drag that thing over on a Saturday or Sunday to change the hardware Kenny? We can set it up in the shop, your more than welcome anytime!!!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Gerhard, you are correct in your statement. From the back there are no nuts if you have the early design like I have. Those pics sure help too. Hey Mike, thanks for the invite. I'm going to do it here one wheel at a time. I'll save the invite for welding and the such. I do have some metallurgy questions relating to some spring steel parts on this truck. BTW is your shop on Boca Rio south of Glades? Let me know when that EUC thingy gets approved.

 

[Evilone]

RE:Brake Inspections & Warning For Older Dueces

In reference to the jpg 008 & 004 posted on May 10 2006 #51125 by gringeltaube, I would like to clarify the proper relationship of the pieces to each other for installation. The long guidepin in 004 jpg is used to hold the upper part of the brake shoe.This pin goes through the elongated shoe hole where the horseshoe washer rests against the back of the brake shoe. The spring sits inside the washer on the shoe side and rests against th backing plate on the other end. The lockwasher and nut are used to secure these parts on the outsde of the backing plate. The short guide pin in the same jpg, goes through the elongated hole in the lower part of the same brake shoe. The other washer with the recessed "cup" goes on this pin and the recess faces outward, away from the backing plate, with the recess bottom against the shoulder of this short guide pin. The lockwasher and nut secure these parts as well to th backing plate.This is the installation for leading and trailing shoes at all wheels. The springs will help keep th upper part of the shoes away from the backing plate and in line with the adjuster cams for minor brake adjustments. If installed correctly, when the top and bottom distance of any shoe is measured, it will be even, meaning if all brake adjustments are done correctly(and backing plates are not bent), you will have even wear across the shoes. When the washers are installed on the upper long guidepin as in jpg 008, the shoes are sticking out at the top more than the bottom and wear unevenly. Also make sure that you have the bottom anchor pins inner felt washer with it's cup and the outer washer and slotted retainer installed correctly. The shoes will then move freely between the guidepins and washers when you make a brake application.

______________________________________________________________
"Born To Lose ~ LiveTo Win"
Evilone
CFB Gagetown
New Brunswick, Canada
1952 M-37 CDN w/w

 

[Desert Rat]

Nice to hear from y'all from the "Great White North"! Excellent synopsis too!!! It seems you have quite a bit of experience with Deuce brakes. Thanks so much for jumping in!

 

[gringeltaube]

RE:Brake Inspections & Warning For Older Dueces

The other washer with the recessed "cup" goes on this pin and the recess faces outward, away from the backing plate, with the recess bottom against the shoulder of this short guide pin.

Thanks for your input! Looks like someone was really paying attention...
You are right and my pics are misleading! In the hurry I didn't do what I always suggest to do: check the manuals first. And there it is: TM 9-2320-209-34P, page 198
Interesting enough, from about a dozen different axles I checked again, only one was assembled correct with the "cup" on the short pin! Seems to be a very common mistake?
On the other hand I couldn't confirm signs of severe, uneven wear on the brake shoes with that recessed washer under the spring on the long bolt, for who knows how long! One thing I did notice was that the brake shoes do perfectly align with the eccentric adjusters only if the hold down bolts are correctly assembled.
I’m attaching new pics to show how it should be. And I apologize for any inconvenience or loss of time I could have caused with my first post …
Still learning...

Gerhard

 

[Recovry4x4]

If you feel like shelling out $20 to White Owl, this is what you get! I bought 2 kits, need 4 more to do the job right.

 

[gringeltaube]

Guess they not only sell that (nice) kit but also show how to assemble everything correctly???

 

[red devils dude]

also on some truck check for COPPER brake line's any where new one's have been installed
such as the front lines on my truck

 

[Towman2277]

You are all right....I've been in a 5-ton driving 50 mph down the road, coming to an intersection, hit the pedal and SMACK!! That pedal hit the floor, and my A** bit a chunk out of my seat as I blew the air-horn and rolled through a 4-way stop at 40 mph. It was one of the scariest feelings I have ever had. Thank god the cars sitting there saw me and did not pull out......all from a small wheel cylinder leak, and all the fluid running out the last time I drove it. Now I check that fluid everytime that truck starts.....

 

[THUNDRLOJ]

You are all right....ISame thing happened to me on a downhill grade with a stopsign at the bottom. I was bringing my 5 ton home. Fortunately I had slowed down enough that the parking brake did it's job and the one car at the bottom of the hill didn't stick around. Turns out the air pack unit was full of rust and crud. The mechanic cleaned it out and I was able to finish my trip home. She had been sitting for several months. That's what happens when you dont DRAIN YOUR AIR TANKS DAILY!!

 

[steelandcanvas]

Two real good threads on Deuce brakes recently...I have read them both and will heed the advice...Makes me want to go out to the shop right now and yank the wheels to get a visual.

 

[Wolf.Dose]

In Europe some guys did change the air over hydraulic master cylinder by a Daimler 2 circiut version of a 6x4 french sold truck from the seventies. Since then they had never probelms any more. But, please do not ask me about the stock number!
Wolf

 

[CCATLETT1984]

In Europe some guys did change the air over hydraulic master cylinder by a Daimler 2 circiut version of a 6x4 french sold truck from the seventies. Since then they had never probelms any more. But, please do not ask me about the stock number!
Wolf

going to a twin circuit system adds a ton of lines under the truck.

I would probably go to a full hydraulic system before messing with a dual circuit air/hyd.

 

[Wolf.Dose]

Sorry, misunderstood: The line for the rear axles remain unchanged. The line for the front axle also. After the air over hydraulic master, there is a simple seperation of the lines required. The T is taken out and two lines added to the new master cylinder. The line fron the brake padel remains unchanged. Not so much! Sorry, some fittings have to be changed to ISO-standard.
With a non assisted hydraulic system your brakes will only fulfill emergency requirements of the FMVSS, no matter how hard you step on the brakes! So it is not road legal!

 

[CCATLETT1984]

Sorry, misunderstood: The line for the rear axles remain unchanged. The line for the front axle also. After the air over hydraulic master, there is a simple seperation of the lines required. The T is taken out and two lines added to the new master cylinder. The line fron the brake padel remains unchanged. Not so much! Sorry, some fittings have to be changed to ISO-standard.
With a non assisted hydraulic system your brakes will only fulfill emergency requirements of the FMVSS, no matter how hard you step on the brakes! So it is not road legal!

sorry if you mis-understood my comment, by "full hydraulic" i meant using a power steering pump and "hydraulic fluid" for the assist. Just like the hydroboost on a CUCV.

 

[Wolf.Dose]

If you can handle the necessary volume...