Brush truck water capacity?

[yeager1]

Thanks for all the info. These trucks were defiantly under rated because you never know what some 18 year old will do to a free truck that isn't his, but following these rating AND using a little discretion will make these last a long time. I'm thinking that if it is rated to safely carry 10,000 on road at 55mph, I think it can safely carry that off road with a little discretion.
http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/ claims a capacity of 900 gallons of water and a tank weight of "3,350 lbs. (without water or accessories)". That's about 11,000 lbs. We use all poly tanks, which are very light and the pump is an 18hp gas unit. Even with powered reels and 300' hose it's still not more then a few hundred pounds total. Since our skid mounted sprayer already has a 600 gallon tank, if I added a second 600 gallon unit that would be 10,020lbs (but you never quite fill them all the way). So the total weight would be almost exactly what roscommon recommends.

Also, I forgot to mention that all this spraying will be between 6000 and 10,000 ft above sea level. Sould make for some slow driving.

 

[Dunegoon]

Tank

Our Fire Dept uses a 5 ton with a 1200 gallon polly tank. It has a LDS engine and on flat ground it will run 2500 rpm in 5th most of the time. When we get on scene depending on the terrain first gear is a little tall taking off with that much weight some of the time. Putting the truck in low range if it is soft ground or up hill is a must. It really seems to handle the weight on road and off road very well. The brakes and steering work great loaded or not. Our truck takes a beating on a regular basis and runs circles around our 1 ton trucks with a 300 gallon tank. We have had a ruff fire season already and the 6x6 is the last one to get on scence and the last one to go home. I love driving by the guys and their broke down 1 tons and saying " thats a fast sucker, you need a ride to town! " We have never had a problem with our truck because of the way it is loaded. Hope this helps.

 

[elkhunter]

I have a 700 gal tank on my M35A2 and have had no problems since I put it on 3 years ago. I Have a Honda Fire Pump with a maiifold on the pump for 4 different sizes of hose including one on a reel.One of the connections is for a hose size used by the forest service. Honda pump is a 5 HP. Hope this helps1!

 

[fasttruck]

Fire Engineering Magazine recently ran an article on the pitfalls of using surplus MVs for water transport. Volunteer firefighter recently killed out west when POL truck converted to water service overturned. Water is heavier than gas and fuel carriers are not baffled side to side. Common 600 gal GI fuel pods have no baffles. Most fire apparatus roll over accidents involve tankers. Military had M 50 2.5 ton water trucks which carried 1000 gal water. M49C
designed for 1200gal GAS. Do not recommend a chassis with 6 wheels for liquid transport. Get one with ten wheels. Use experienced drivers and operate where it is level side to side. Here in NJ you are not qualified to drive a solid waste transfer tractor-trailer until you have had at least three roll-overs. I don't think forestry is as forgiving.

 

[SEAFIRE]

fasttruck is right, we got a warning from the Forest Service a while back about using non-baffled tanks and the danger of making converted military trucks top heavy.

The 2 deaths in a report we read had one example of a M35 rolling over, and the 2nd of a firefighter falling off a modified front bumper.

In the M35 roll over incident the truck rolled over on a dirt road while making a slight turn, the volunteer firefighter was not wearing a seatbelt and the truck had no roll over protection. From the picture we saw, which only showed the truck lying upside down with the cab top crushed, it was hard to see what kind of tank it had, this may be the incident fasttruck is referring to.

In the 2nd incident, which happened here in Texas, a firefighter fell off the side of a modified front bumper on a 5-ton 6x6 converted brush truck that was turning around and got ran over by the wheels before the driver could stop.

Both of our M35A2's have fully baffled low profile poly tanks. We also put fall protection for our firefighters.

I'll agree with Dunegoon, the 6x6's make excellent grass rigs, when converted safely.

I've seen other departments using those un-baffled 600-gallon tanks the Forest Service gives them, some put two in the back of a Deuce, if the Forest Service thinks they are unsafe, they shouldn't give them out.

 

[elkhunter]

The poly tank I have in my deuce is baffles, flat in bottom and tank is round and takes up 3/4 of the bed. and strapped down with 4 wide straps rated at 4000 pounds each. I can fill the tank up from the lake in 9 minutes. Hose from lake to pump is 3" and from dicharge on pump is 11/2" and quick coupled to lid on top of tank. The 3 way valve between the pump and tank is a must. With using the 11/2 hose the tank can be emptied in 11 minutes. With two 3/4 hoses the tank will last about 18 minutes. A good footvalve is a must for taking water out of a lake with the 3" hose. My truck is for my benefit and my neighbors and was very welcome during the nations #1 fire in 2007, the Meriwether Fire on the Missouri River at the Gates of the Mountains northeast of Helena MT. Can run 1/12, two 3/4" and 1" (USFS) off the manifold, any combo two at a time. Also have information on retardant that can be put in tank without using an emulsifer if any one is interested. It is stste of the art and the military uses it. It is $45.00 a gallon and is biodegradable and last up to 45 days. I have a 1972 AM General with a LDT 465 "D" with the data plate dated 1987 and its a Hercules. Common sense prevails when hauling heavy loads!! Hope it was not too much information.

 

[yeager1]

The more info the better! I really agree that 1 1200 gallon is way unsafe; it’s just too much in one tank. Since I already have the current skid mounted tank, maybe by adding two additional smaller tanks side by side in the front of the bed (on behind the driver, one behind the passenger) the shifting weight would be minimized. Also, flat bottom baffled tanks make a HUGE difference. With round tanks the water weight has to shift upwards as it shifts outwards- they shift the center of gravity up and out with momentum- which is very bad: keep it low and centered.

 

[CGarbee]

I need to update my page on the tanker that I put together for use on the farm, but you can see what it looks like at:
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/m35pages/m35photos5.htm

Bassically, its a M35A2 with a 1025 gallon polly tank with a Pacer 2.5" pump for drafting water out of the river that runs through the farm that we use to haul water to the sprayer units in the orchards (insecticide/fungicide, etc applications) and for use in dust control at the festivals held at the farm.

The truck has the sprague front axle since I figured it would be easier on the guys (and on the truck) if they didn't have to think about engaging the front when they pulled out of the river bottom with a load. Most of the driving is on dirt/gravel anyway.

The orchards are mountainside (Blue Ridge in VA), dust control is mainly in the bottomland.

1025 gallon tank looks a little small, but it keeps from stressing the truck, and we plan on using it for a long time (truck it replaced had been in service with a 750 gallon tank for forty years...)

 

[elkhunter]

Water Tender!! Looks good. Mine is similar.. Thanks. Will post pictures of mine when I Get back to Montana in April. elkhunter

 

[madsam]

Has anyone ever used an M49 for a brush watter truck?

 

[madsam]

Found an M49 made into a fire truck.

http://www.easternsurplus.net/408.html

 

[MATT]

We have approximately 150 wildland fire trucks in our fleet, the industry standard we follow is the truck must be 10% under the GVWR. This is a National Wildfire Coordination Group regulation, and the US Forest Service and aftermarket fire apparatus builders follow as well. Another safety issue is the tank design. Baffels are required and we are replacing our "high profile" tanks(basically a flatbed with a square water tank attached) to our new "low profile" design, which keeps the center of gravity low. See my avatar pic. Hope this helps....

 

[elkhunter]

Water tenders M35A2 Water Capacity

Thanks for the information update!! This site is awsome and so are the members.

 

[tmbrwolf]

Here we allow 500 GL on a 2 1/2 for a brush truck and 1000 for a tender, tenders are restricted to road use only, 1000 / 2000 for a 5 ton. Biggest problem is suspension breakage and loss of braking capacity. Oddly enough the M50 series tanker was 1000 gallon, but if you read the manual it only allowed 400 gallons cross country. Another issue to deal with is the GVW, if you were over the manufacturers stated GVW and had an accident it will be noted as a factor in the accident report, that may open you up to a big lawsuit. Remember GVW's are set based on the weakest component in the system with a safety factor built in, exceed that and be prepared for some possiblely expensive repairs!

 

[dpsmith]

We have 5 dueces in our fleet 2 are fitted with twin beta tanks which still leaves plenty of room in the rear for pumps gear etc. We have alot of hilly and steep areas so we try to keep weight so that high CG's will not be a problem.They have been in service for over 10 years with no problems.

 

[pwrwagonfire]

My forest fire crew has a deuce with a 1000 gallon slip on. BUT we did have the suspension 'beef-ed' up. Never had a problem driving it through stuff; Low range with the front axle in and it can pretty much go anywhere...if you get stuck, use the winch!


But seriously, one thing which Id STRONGLY encourage you to watch out for is the height of the tank. You wanna make sure you have that good center of gravity, prevent roll overs. Sounds like a no-brainer, but Ive seen many deuce brush trucks which have higher tanks than I'd be comfortable with.....


Im no expert, just a wildland fire guy who drives a deuce tanker, so I figuired I'd chime in my 2 cents!

 

[elkhunter]

You are absolutly right to be concerned about the height Using common sense and learning about the capabilities of the truck and using the right gears,etc and practice go a long way!!