undysworld
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Porkysplace,
Looking over that paperwork, I see at least one issue.
It presumes that no out-of-state on-road title could be issued except by error: "If in error another state titles a Humvee with an on-road title, it can only be titled as an off-road vehicle in this state. When the Michigan Department of state questions another state's Department of Motor Vehicles about the on-road title they issued a Humvee, the state acknowledges their titling error and recalls the erroneous title to be re-issed as an off-road vehicle (ORV) title."
Not ALL Humvee titles were issued in "error". Some Humvees certainly were sold by the US govt. with clear SF-97s and have valid clear titles. In Wis., Humvees are specifically listed as able to register for on-road uses [341.264].
Each state is directed by the US Constitution to recognize records and acts of other states [Art. IV, Sec.1], including things like marriage & drivers licenses, and titles for property like vehicles. If a state cannot demonstrate evidence to the contrary, they should recognize a clear out-of-state title as valid.
Were some Humvees sold with SF-97s marked "off highway use only" - YES. Were some of these eventually titled somewhere - PROBABLY. But remember, until not too long ago, Michigan State Patrol allowed the owner of a John Deere Gator to register it, if it passed an equipment inspection. It wasn't just some boogey-man in some scary foreign state doing this.
When I appealed WisDOT's cancellation of my Pinzgauer, I submitted an open records request for the original paperwork I submitted when I first registered it 5 years earlier. They told me they didn't have copies. Yet during my subsequent appeal, they submitted that very paperwork as part of their evidence. My point is, that these previous records are generally still available, somewhere, if someone is willing to go looking. (Alternatively, the DOD undoubtedly has a record, by vehicle # (VIN), of which vehicles were sold "off-road", but again someone would need to go looking. (A perfect example is the branded SF-97 shown in that paperwork.) These would be acceptable proof that an out-of-state title was issued "in error".
I'm not in favor of off-road Humvee titles being "washed" into on-road ones, because this reflects badly on all of us in the hobby or using them for work. But many totally legitimate on-road Humvee titles exist, so to ban them all is unacceptable. I'd think an attorney could easily demonstrate that this constitutes a "taking" of the value of an legitimate on-road titled Humvee.
This argument should be brought to the attention of your legislators, if not the courts. (IMHO)
Thanks for posting the letter.
Looking over that paperwork, I see at least one issue.
It presumes that no out-of-state on-road title could be issued except by error: "If in error another state titles a Humvee with an on-road title, it can only be titled as an off-road vehicle in this state. When the Michigan Department of state questions another state's Department of Motor Vehicles about the on-road title they issued a Humvee, the state acknowledges their titling error and recalls the erroneous title to be re-issed as an off-road vehicle (ORV) title."
Not ALL Humvee titles were issued in "error". Some Humvees certainly were sold by the US govt. with clear SF-97s and have valid clear titles. In Wis., Humvees are specifically listed as able to register for on-road uses [341.264].
Each state is directed by the US Constitution to recognize records and acts of other states [Art. IV, Sec.1], including things like marriage & drivers licenses, and titles for property like vehicles. If a state cannot demonstrate evidence to the contrary, they should recognize a clear out-of-state title as valid.
Were some Humvees sold with SF-97s marked "off highway use only" - YES. Were some of these eventually titled somewhere - PROBABLY. But remember, until not too long ago, Michigan State Patrol allowed the owner of a John Deere Gator to register it, if it passed an equipment inspection. It wasn't just some boogey-man in some scary foreign state doing this.
When I appealed WisDOT's cancellation of my Pinzgauer, I submitted an open records request for the original paperwork I submitted when I first registered it 5 years earlier. They told me they didn't have copies. Yet during my subsequent appeal, they submitted that very paperwork as part of their evidence. My point is, that these previous records are generally still available, somewhere, if someone is willing to go looking. (Alternatively, the DOD undoubtedly has a record, by vehicle # (VIN), of which vehicles were sold "off-road", but again someone would need to go looking. (A perfect example is the branded SF-97 shown in that paperwork.) These would be acceptable proof that an out-of-state title was issued "in error".
I'm not in favor of off-road Humvee titles being "washed" into on-road ones, because this reflects badly on all of us in the hobby or using them for work. But many totally legitimate on-road Humvee titles exist, so to ban them all is unacceptable. I'd think an attorney could easily demonstrate that this constitutes a "taking" of the value of an legitimate on-road titled Humvee.
This argument should be brought to the attention of your legislators, if not the courts. (IMHO)
Thanks for posting the letter.
