Can a Deuce to tow a Deuce on a trailer without a CDL ? Yes.

[m16ty]

Donkdonk, I'm glad you posted that. As long as you're not commercial, you can go up to 80,000lb without CDL (according to federal law). I understand that some states have tougher restrictions though. TN follows the federal law.

 

[wolfeson]

While I was in the service I had a break down during a convoy. the recovery party showed up and towed MLVW with another MLVW by pulling the shaft from the axle, and then towing using an aframe tow bar. then we dragged that unit half a day into a repair depot. this turns the rear MLVW into a trailer... now does this give you any tounge weight? NO. btw
MLVW is the canadian name for a duece.

 

[Rustygears]

The law for California is pretty clear on this. A 'B' class CDL minimum is required if towing a trailer or other vehicle at 10,001 lbs.

 

[Jakob]

So if I am reading Donkdonk's and m16ty's posts correctly, as long as the tractor is 26k or less, the trailer and load can be a total of (added to the tractors weight) 80k pounds and still not require a CDL as long as none of the components are of a commercial origin?

 

[sickmoparfreak]

No CDL...NO PROBLEM!......What a trip!

I hit the buy it now button on ebay, and was the proud owner of a M35A2, and M105 trailer. The plan was: Build a tow bar for my dodge wrecker, lift the trailer with my wrecker boom into the bed of the deuce, and tow my lil wrecker with the deuce. Ive owned these before, and dont see any major problem.....
The new deuce was in Middle Illinois, and I'm in SC. We talk to our trucker buddies who provide a weigh station map. We know we've got it licked now!
Next item: Law enforcement has seen fit to remove my driving privileges for a while....so, I call up my ex Army best friend Darren. He's got vacation days to burn, would love to be my wheel man so he's ALL IN!
After a good transaction with the seller, we loaded the trailer in the deuce. next,, check all the fluids, tires, etc on the deuce and roll out....and we did. We were headed toward Chicago, then south to dodge the 24 hr Louisville KY scale. The seat foam I had shoved in my ears wouldn't quite do the job, so we stopped for grub and ear plugs....The deuce was loud and proud, and rolling well just according to plan. Darren woke me hollering " we got a knock" and we did. It sounded like a kid trapped in the engine trying to get out with a 2 lb shop hammer. We unhooked the dodge, and towed the deuce 4 miles to the nearest truck stop.
We were in middle Kentucky, and had no choice but go back home, and get a flat bed. Well, at that time all I could access was a short flat deck dozer trailer with triple dual axles. It was exactly as long as the deuce wheel base. We freshened up some of the 12 tires and headed out. My dodge cummins has a jake brake, but a blown diaphragm....very little trailer brakes, and only a 1 TON DODGE to bring it all home with. I've moved mobile homes most of my life, so LETS TRY IT !! Never mind the fact that Darren hasnt really pulled anything except an empty trailer so far.....ever.
No matter which way you load the deuce, 48 mph was max controllable speed. Darren was tired. SC to Illinois and back, now SC to Kentucky with maybe 2 hrs sleep. Totally beat, he was about to pull the load of his life through the Nantahala gorge, and the Saluda grade. An incline I dont know the specs on, but it is long and steep, with many, many sandtraps to catch run away trucks.
As we approached the Ashville NC scale, we missed our detour, and just knew we were in trouble. Luckily the sign said "scale closed" and we cheered! yes! No scale! As we drove by in the lil dodge with a deuce on a flat deck, with a trailer up in it, (as tall as most transfer trucks) the NC lights lit up. "They got us".......and we waited for the officer. "Yall didnt stop"...."sign said closed!" The officer grinned and laughed " We were till my boss SAW YALL! Haaaa" He told us he would follow us down and back to weigh in.......We knew my 10k tag wasnt gonna cover even the wrecker...... We weighed in at 34, 000 lb and some change. Wow....I'm not gonna own these trucks anymore, they'll be impounded for sure. My head math said the fines would run $15,000 or better. The officers at the scale said we were lucky Darren DIDNT HAVE A CDL. What? This way we can fine him $511 for not having a license to cover the load.......and we crept away SO thankful they let us leave at all.
Then we were headed down the saluda grade for the scariest experience in a wheeled vehicle EVER. Rev 3rd till the cummins was about to sling rods, smoke the brakes until they nearly catch fire. Repeating this just got faster as the brakes on the trailer faded.........WE MADE IT! Yes! I cant believe how well Darren held it together.......and another hour and we were home.....I'll get pics up soon.

 

[Recovry4x4]

That sounds like quite the experience. Next time you do a recovery, let us all know in advance when and which route. I'd like to get pics from way far off the road and make sure my family is in another state.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

FWIW, over 26,001 combined GCVWR is CDL land for commercial, makes no matter on the GVW's of the parts. Yes, a 1-ton at GVWR of 13,000 and a trailer at 13,001, (rated not loaded) is a Class A, CDL, IF commercial. States vary all over the board.

Recovery...do not be so harsh, it is events like this that give me and Dumpster something to keep us employed, when we are not being paid to break things....

 

[papabear]

I hit the buy it now button on ebay, and was the proud owner of a M35A2, and M105 trailer. The plan was: Build a tow bar for my dodge wrecker, lift the trailer with my wrecker boom into the bed of the deuce, and tow my lil wrecker with the deuce. Ive owned these before, and dont see any major problem.....
The new deuce was in Middle Illinois, and I'm in SC. We talk to our trucker buddies who provide a weigh station map. We know we've got it licked now!
Next item: Law enforcement has seen fit to remove my driving privileges for a while....so, I call up my ex Army best friend Darren. He's got vacation days to burn, would love to be my wheel man so he's ALL IN!
After a good transaction with the seller, we loaded the trailer in the deuce. next,, check all the fluids, tires, etc on the deuce and roll out....and we did. We were headed toward Chicago, then south to dodge the 24 hr Louisville KY scale. The seat foam I had shoved in my ears wouldn't quite do the job, so we stopped for grub and ear plugs....The deuce was loud and proud, and rolling well just according to plan. Darren woke me hollering " we got a knock" and we did. It sounded like a kid trapped in the engine trying to get out with a 2 lb shop hammer. We unhooked the dodge, and towed the deuce 4 miles to the nearest truck stop.
We were in middle Kentucky, and had no choice but go back home, and get a flat bed. Well, at that time all I could access was a short flat deck dozer trailer with triple dual axles. It was exactly as long as the deuce wheel base. We freshened up some of the 12 tires and headed out. My dodge cummins has a jake brake, but a blown diaphragm....very little trailer brakes, and only a 1 TON DODGE to bring it all home with. I've moved mobile homes most of my life, so LETS TRY IT !! Never mind the fact that Darren hasnt really pulled anything except an empty trailer so far.....ever.
No matter which way you load the deuce, 48 mph was max controllable speed. Darren was tired. SC to Illinois and back, now SC to Kentucky with maybe 2 hrs sleep. Totally beat, he was about to pull the load of his life through the Nantahala gorge, and the Saluda grade. An incline I dont know the specs on, but it is long and steep, with many, many sandtraps to catch run away trucks.
As we approached the Ashville NC scale, we missed our detour, and just knew we were in trouble. Luckily the sign said "scale closed" and we cheered! yes! No scale! As we drove by in the lil dodge with a deuce on a flat deck, with a trailer up in it, (as tall as most transfer trucks) the NC lights lit up. "They got us".......and we waited for the officer. "Yall didnt stop"...."sign said closed!" The officer grinned and laughed " We were till my boss SAW YALL! Haaaa" He told us he would follow us down and back to weigh in.......We knew my 10k tag wasnt gonna cover even the wrecker...... We weighed in at 34, 000 lb and some change. Wow....I'm not gonna own these trucks anymore, they'll be impounded for sure. My head math said the fines would run $15,000 or better. The officers at the scale said we were lucky Darren DIDNT HAVE A CDL. What? This way we can fine him $511 for not having a license to cover the load.......and we crept away SO thankful they let us leave at all.
Then we were headed down the saluda grade for the scariest experience in a wheeled vehicle EVER. Rev 3rd till the cummins was about to sling rods, smoke the brakes until they nearly catch fire. Repeating this just got faster as the brakes on the trailer faded.........WE MADE IT! Yes! I cant believe how well Darren held it together.......and another hour and we were home.....I'll get pics up soon.

Well...I own a towing and recovery business so I guess I won't say much cause this is part of how we stay in business.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Squirttruck, I'm sorry Sir, I failed to remember your field of expertise. Mr sickmoparfreak, carryon!

 

[m16ty]

All I can say is wow. I've done some crazy stuff before (nothing quite this bad) but I'd never have the guts to post it in a public forum.

IMO, if you don't have the money to have your new purchase towed or hauled home if needed then you can't afford it.

 

[sickmoparfreak]

If I'd had your #, I probably would have gotten a bid from your company. I own a mobile home business, and stretching the limits of a drivers license is a normal topic....as well as folks to cheap to pay our freight. The challenge of finding a way.....and not quitting, is where the fun lies! I flew one way to Houston TX from SC, to get a 69 unimog running, and drive it back home 1000+ miles....and it made it about 500. We paid to haul it in......but my daughter and I had a great time getting it out, and fighting to keep her going......

 

[RayK]

GA Rules

FYI: If you drive a deuce in GA, you need a CDL. GA is different than most states in that if you have air brakes OR air over hydraulic brakes, you at least need a class A CDL.

 

[papabear]

FYI: If you drive a deuce in GA, you need a CDL. GA is different than most states in that if you have air brakes OR air over hydraulic brakes, you at least need a class A CDL.

Umm...not unless you haul hazmat.
Can you cite the FMCSA part that requires this?

I'm not calling you out...or calling you wrong, that's just not my understanding...and if you are right...I'm INCREDIBALLY wrong!

 

[islandguydon]

If it looks like a duck,
Quacks like a duck,
Swims and flys like a duck.....Then it must be a . . . . . . . Goose..!

 

[RayK]

Ga cdl

I took that from the Georgia Commercial Driver's Manual. It's talking about the tests you have to take for all CDL applicants. On the air brake test, is says "you must take if your vehicle has air brakes, including air over hydraulic brakes."

That's where I got it - if you have something different, I'm all ears. I didn't want to have to get a CDL to drive my deuce anyway.

 

[3dAngus]

Dennis

It has to weigh over 26k pounds.
The deuce is less than 14k pounds so it is exempt from cdl requirements.

Trailering has to be less than 10k pounds though.
So a deuce trailering a deuce may require one.

 

[TMNT]

I took that from the Georgia Commercial Driver's Manual. It's talking about the tests you have to take for all CDL applicants. On the air brake test, is says "you must take if your vehicle has air brakes, including air over hydraulic brakes."

That's where I got it - if you have something different, I'm all ears. I didn't want to have to get a CDL to drive my deuce anyway.

That just means that IF you are testing for CDL and IF you have air or air over hydraulic brakes, then you need the air brake endorsement.

We run commercial vehicles in Georgia every day and we have two fleet specialist on staff and we have a public safety come in every couple of months to check things over.

You don't need a CDL to drive a deuce in GA unless you use it for commercial purposes.

 

[RayK]

Re: GA CDL

Dell - it's not the weight, it's the manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating, which for an M35A2 is 23,530 and it can tow 10,000 lbs. So the way I read it, even if you tow an empty M105, rated at 10,000 lbs, you'd have a total weight rating of 33,530, which says CDL.

TMNT - the GA manual in the "Do you need a CDL section?" never mentions the word "commercial", it's just weight ratings, 16 or more passengers, or hazmat.

What is the definitive GA law or regulation on this?

 

[3dAngus]

Its not what you can tow.
Its what you do tow. So if youre towing over 10k its considered commercial and yes you do need a class A.
There are exceptions for farmers, firemen and rvs on weight restrictions of the primary vehicle.
Even in Cslifornia, one of the strictest states in the nation, you dont need a cdl due to the air over hydraulic brakes on a deuce (according to enclyopedia) because Ca. recognizes the hydraulic aspect of the braking system as being the primary aspect of the overall system, thus, reportedly, they do not require a cdl there for a deuce either.
Anyway, when I asked, I was told it was not needed. I dont really know of anyone who got a cdl in Ga. for a deuce.

 

[originalstarhauler]

The BIG IF and MURPHY's LAW http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-laws.html now if we understand that we can well see what can happen. These are machines that have kenitec energy even when parked. Why take chances? Pushing your luck can kill and can be considered as criminal negligence. How many have you seen you tube vids of winches being used with bystanders in a possible path of a broken cable? How many of you have unlimited funds for legal defense against a prosecutor that has a blank check? Have you ever heard the term wrongful death in a law suit?
I have a M817, bought it for Commercial use in hauling limestone in my local area. When I bought it I often saw 1 Tons going into the quarry taking on loads that that gave them free power steering without commercial tags. Always thought it will happen, a failure to stop at a stop sign and they kill a person , it will hit the fan. Now if your charged in a vehicle accident hopefully you had read your insurance policy closely as most polices state legally licensed driver. Further it in most cases will say Non Commercial Use. You can argue till the exhaust burns clear on a 5 Ton to law enforcement, you can do the same with your insurance agent but the bottom line is someone is going to pay the price. Can you muster the funds to fight a insurance company that says you bought and sold military surplus as a business therefore you were in a commercial enterprise? Can you mortgage your home or refinance it to hire an attorney in a wrongful death if your insurance company refuses to do so and even if they do they only shell out the liability of the policy, you get the difference.
This whole issue is one of personal responsibility do it in accordance with the law, do it safe in all you do even laying under that truck requires proper stands and wheel chocks. Our grave yards are full of those that Murphy's Law was referring too.