Can I run tires without the runflats and PVC inserts?

[mynameisjonas]

I am new to working on these trucks, so please bare with me. I had already researched this online, but I have not found a definitive answer.

I am helping a friend with his H1 and I need some help with replacing the tires. It is currently running the 12 bolt two piece wheel with runflats and the blue PVC beadlock inserts. I am replacing the tires with the same Goodyear MT's and wanted to know if I can run these without the runflats and inserts.

Also, I noticed some red sealant on the rubber o'ring that was used before. Do I need to use any sealant in addition to the new o'ring? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jbulach]

You can run 16.5’s with out bead-locks but don’t air down. Clean out the sealer replace the O-rings with new and use rubber lube on them.

 

[Dock Rocker]

No. You can’t. You need the insert to have something for the bead to seal against.

You may be able to get it in and seated but if you put it in any sort of bind you will have a flat.


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[lowell66dart]

I am not an expert but this is the little I know. 16.5 wheels have a 15 degree lip where the tire rides. This was for stiff truck tires to be easy to seat. We have stiff truck tires.
Most wheels now have a 5 degree lip to really hold the tire well.
I am under the opinion that you can run without runflats but as stated above if you air down it gets iffy. In fact I am going to mount a new set of tires tomorrow without them but I will not and never have had a reason to air down for what I do with my trucks. Lots of trucks on the road with 16.5 tires and no runflats. They came from the factory that way.

 

[mynameisjonas]

I understand you are not going to use the runflats, but are you still using the pvc beadlocks?

I am not an expert but this is the little I know. 16.5 wheels have a 15 degree lip where the tire rides. This was for stiff truck tires to be easy to seat. We have stiff truck tires.
Most wheels now have a 5 degree lip to really hold the tire well.
I am under the opinion that you can run without runflats but as stated above if you air down it gets iffy. In fact I am going to mount a new set of tires tomorrow without them but I will not and never have had a reason to air down for what I do with my trucks. Lots of trucks on the road with 16.5 tires and no runflats. They came from the factory that way.

 

[mynameisjonas]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Dock Rocker]

I am not an expert

snip

Lots of trucks on the road with 16.5 tires and no runflats. They came from the factory that way.

Those tires you speak of are not on double bead lock wheels.
It’s been tried many times before and it just doesn’t work. The wheel was made to pinch the tire between the bead lock ring on the wheel the runflat. When you have no runflat there is nothing to keep the tire from pressing in to the center of the wheel away from the beadlock ring. The PVC insert replicates the clamping force of the runflat.

If you don’t believe me go right ahead and try. Just buy plenty of insurance before you do.



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[Jbulach]

Yes, no, maybe. Glad we could help... at least opinions on the internet are cheap.

 

[Action]

How do you have PVC beadlocks AND runflats in the tires?

If your rims are 5 degree seat and the tires are for 15 degree seat, will that cause any issues?

 

[mynameisjonas]

Yes, no, maybe. Glad we could help... at least opinions on the internet are cheap.

Right! I thought I would have avoided this coming here...

 

[gringeltaube]

..........................When you have no runflat there is nothing to keep the tire from pressing in to the center of the wheel away from the beadlock ring.

Nothing - but air under pressure... 40 psi does a lot!

I have many happy customers running the MT's; Bajas; MT/Rs on civilian 1-pc wheels, where you can't use any inserts. No complaints, so far. And of course everyone knows what can happen if aired down too much...

 

[Action]

Nothing - but air under pressure... 40 psi does a lot!

I have many happy customers running the MT's; Bajas; MT/Rs on civilian 1-pc wheels, where you can't use any inserts. No complaints, so far. And of course everyone knows what can happen if aired down too much...

But, do you have any customers that run the 2-piece steel wheels with nothing in the tires?

 

[Dock Rocker]

Nothing - but air under pressure... 40 psi does a lot!

I have many happy customers running the MT's; Bajas; MT/Rs on civilian 1-pc wheels, where you can't use any inserts. No complaints, so far. And of course everyone knows what can happen if aired down too much...

Your comparing apples and spaghetti. Good luck with your project. I hope you make it out in one piece.


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[gringeltaube]

Calm down. The original question was, " Can these tires be run with no insert at all..."? And post #2 is the correct answer.
Pressurized air keeps the beads in place, period. Same happens with 17.5"; 19.5"; 22.5"; etc. wheels, and there are many millions on the roads, all day long, and all running well, with no inserts...

But, do you have any customers that run the 2-piece steel wheels with nothing in the tires?

Your comparing apples and spaghetti....

I don't think so... The 2-pc wheels are no different where the tire beads come to rest; it still is a 15-deg shoulder with no safety hump, like 99% of all 16.5" wheels.

Now, for someone having the advantage of 2-pc bolt-together wheels and having the inserts already, if the question was "does it make sense to leave them out?", then my response would be a clear NO, of course.
Note that when I'm referring to inserts I mean the (internal) bead locks bands, only, not the heavy run-flat donuts.

 

[tage]

How do you have PVC beadlocks AND runflats in the tires?

The pvc replaces the run flat. And vis versa.

Btw guys these 2 piece bead locks are not dot compliant. Go through a weigh station or dot enforcement with them on, and you'll have your pocket book emptied...

The op needs to ask a clear question, because this thread is all opinions and noise.

 

[Action]

The pvc replaces the run flat. And vis versa.

Btw guys these 2 piece bead locks are not dot compliant. Go through a weigh station or dot enforcement with them on, and you'll have your pocket book emptied...

The op needs to ask a clear question, because this thread is all opinions and noise.

I know the 2 can't be used at the same time, but the OP stated the tires have both...

I am helping a friend with his H1 and I need some help with replacing the tires. It is currently running the 12 bolt two piece wheel with runflats and the blue PVC beadlock inserts. I am replacing the tires with the same Goodyear MT's and wanted to know if I can run these without the runflats and inserts.

 

[suzukovich]

Having driven the M998 and it's variants over the years with the military and changed tires to boot. Kinda makes me an expert. Of course if you are using single piece rims, you don't need the PVC or runflat inserts. Dosent take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But if your using 2 piece beadlock rims either it's the 12 or 24 bolt mil rims or civilian equivalent you will need the PVC insert. If your not using the the runflat insert(mil rims only). The advantage of the insert is weight. With the runflat insert combine with the weight of the mil rims, (especially the 24 bolt rims) are very heavy and increase wear on the steering components and half shafts. Only real advantage is you don't have to carry a spare. Anyone who changed out tires will tell you the the runflat insert are a real pain in the ass to pull them out of the tires. The PVC insert makes it alot easer and also a significant reduction in weight and reduces wear and tear on drivetrain. Disadvantage you need to have a spare. So you can either listen to peaple who know what their talking about or Hope you have a good lawyer.

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[suzukovich]

The pvc replaces the run flat. And vis versa.

Btw guys these 2 piece bead locks are not dot compliant. Go through a weigh station or dot enforcement with them on, and you'll have your pocket book emptied...

The op needs to ask a clear question, because this thread is all opinions and noise.

Both the civilian and the Mil Humvee rims are DOT compliant. The original 8 bolts were not. 12 and 24 bolt mil rims have a DOT stamp on them. The Humvee rims are the only 2 piece rims that street legal.

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[gringeltaube]

Btw guys these 2 piece bead locks are not dot compliant. Go through a weigh station or dot enforcement with them on, and you'll have your pocket book emptied....

"these 2 piece bead locks"... ? What exactly are you referring to?

I agree with suzukovich: all the 12- and 24-bolt wheels I have here actually do have the DOT stamp, with a date.

 

[suzukovich]

Also do not mix D and E rated tires or rims. The Mil 12 and 24 bolt are D rated. The double 24 bolt rims are E rated and are heavier. If your not sure the are stamped E or D. You can run E rated tires on the D rated rims. Air pressure unless you are driving a fully Uparmored M1151 there is no need to run 40 to 50 PSI on the 2 piece mil rims. 30 will work with the MT, MTR, or the BF Goodrich BAJAs and that's with the runflats.

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