TX Can't get title/registration in Texas - suggestions?

[kenn]

I went to the DMV today with a North Carolina title in hand and all required paperwork -- or so I thought. I want to register it as a Former Military Vehicle given the difference in cost. 5 years is $50 and no inspections. Regular registration is about $750 in fees over 5 years. As we were going through the process they lady at the counter told me that since the title doesn't specifically say, "former military vehicle" that it has to be registered as a regular vehicle. Also no weight on the title. So it seems I'll have to weigh it, get an actual inspection, and pay them their fees... I have asked the state of NC for a certified copy of all the military-related documents that were provided when it was titled in 2016 so maybe that will change things but she said it "has to be on the title". Anyone experience something similar?

 

[98G]

Go to a different DMV office.

 

[NDT]

Agree with 98G, she told you bs, if you provide the required pictures, there is no other “proof” required in the DMV statute.

 

[swbradley1]

98G is sooo correct. I drive 19 miles way out of my way to do any title work or registration here in Ohio because the one I go to is nicer and seems to have their act together.

 

[kenn]

Agree with 98G, she told you bs, if you provide the required pictures, there is no other “proof” required in the DMV statute.

Thanks! I suspected as such. I'll produce a mountain more documentation and take it to another branch as the window clerk took it in the back to talk to the "manager" and though neither could find said requirement in writing, they insisted that was the case. I will get it weighed regardless as I suspect that'll be an issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but there are two separate issues. One is transferring the title. It is a matter of taking the old title, collecting their fees, and issuing a new title. Whether or not is says, "former military vehicle" on it is irrelevant. It has no weight so maybe that's an issue but I'll get a certified weight form.

The registration is entirely another matter. It is registration of said vehicle based on what I tell them it is. The form VTR135 for former military vehicles only asks me to certify that the vin is legit and provide a picture. I provided said picture and proof of financial liability so there shouldn't have been any issue.

She wouldn't even proceed with titling it...

 

[m715mike]

I agree with the posts above. The DMV employee mis-spoke. Here are a couple things to note:

> You do need a certified weight slip. It is a requirement for vehicles over 10,000 lbs. I went to a truck stop with CAT scales last time I needed one.

> You may need an inspection and green card if you want to register a vehicle in Texas that was purchased outside of Texas. Although, I’m not sure how this rule applies to FMVs. I got around this last time by doing a Title-only application. I was prohibited from getting a registration within 3 months of getting a title, but I did not have to get an inspection and green card for the vehicle that I purchased outside of Texas. In my case, the registration didn’t matter since the vehicle needed work before it would be roadworthy.

> Next time you are at the DMV, kindly explain to the clerk that the FMV registration is a subcategory of the Antique registration and there is an option for it in their drop down menu. Fortunately I read this on SS before doing my first FMV registration and it made all the difference. The clerk helping me had never heard of the FMV registration and I was able to help talk her through it.


Funny timing. @Rhino 5/4 and I were texting about this topic today.

 

[m715mike]

Here’s one of my posts from 2014:

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/texas-fmv-laws-former-military-vehicles.67255/post-1584406

And here’s a reference to the last one I did (title only for an out of state truck):

STAL II 876

I owned an Alvis Stalwart between 2005 and 2007 and regret selling it. I was rather excited when the opportunity arose to acquire another one! My 'new' Stolly arrived last week. The truck is a 1971 REME Fitters Mk 2 FV624 (Chassis No. STAL II 876, Vehicle No. 20ET33). According to Wikipedia...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[kenn]

I agree with the posts above. The DMV employee mis-spoke. Here are a couple things to note:

> You do need a certified weight slip. It is a requirement for vehicles over 10,000 lbs. I went to a truck stop with CAT scales last time I needed one.

> You may need an inspection and green card if you want to register a vehicle in Texas that was purchased outside of Texas. Although, I’m not sure how this rule applies to FMVs. I got around this last time by doing a Title-only application. I was prohibited from getting a registration within 3 months of getting a title, but I did not have to get an inspection and green card for the vehicle that I purchased outside of Texas. In my case, the registration didn’t matter since the vehicle needed work before it would be roadworthy.

> Next time you are at the DMV, kindly explain to the clerk that the FMV registration is a subcategory of the Antique registration and there is an option for it in their drop down menu. Fortunately I read this on SS before doing my first FMV registration and it made all the difference. The clerk helping me had never heard of the FMV registration and I was able to help talk her through it.


Funny timing. @Rhino 5/4 and I were texting about this topic today.

Again, thanks! I did find the specific statute that says they can use web resources to determine an approximate curb weight but if that number exceeds 5800 pounds a certified weight slip is required. Beyond that they are to title it like any other purchase and the registration is separate. Texas doesn't require inspection for any vehicle with FMV plates according to the DMV website. I'll go back to a different location with everything in hand but it's 105 here today and my Deuce is outside at the moment so I'm not going anywhere near it, lol. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll head over to the scales... 30 miles each way.

 

[MGVFD]

As posted above. If you want tag etc you'll need to have the vehicle inspected first before you get the title transfered. Ran into this earlier this year with a old civilian truck.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

 

[ToddJK]

I agree with all above posts. Many of those people at the local dmv have no idea what they are talking about. Been there done that, lol. Same with insurance companies. Use the right wording and you get a good policy, otherwise they deny you, push a commercial policy, or charge an insane amount.

 

[Barrman]

If you have the FMV paper filled out and the pictures it requires. Nothing else needs to be done legally with a clerk who knows what they are doing. Kindly suggesting they call Austin is your best bet the next time this happens. I have to use that suggestion every time we get a new clerk at our office.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I went to the DMV today with a North Carolina title in hand and all required paperwork -- or so I thought. I want to register it as a Former Military Vehicle given the difference in cost. 5 years is $50 and no inspections. Regular registration is about $750 in fees over 5 years. As we were going through the process they lady at the counter told me that since the title doesn't specifically say, "former military vehicle" that it has to be registered as a regular vehicle. Also no weight on the title. So it seems I'll have to weigh it, get an actual inspection, and pay them their fees... I have asked the state of NC for a certified copy of all the military-related documents that were provided when it was titled in 2016 so maybe that will change things but she said it "has to be on the title". Anyone experience something similar?

Kenn,
Your post has already drawn several knowledgeable and experience-based valid replies and guidance. (There is just one reply I read with a glaring inaccuracy which I will address later.)

Although you haven't specifically stated that you have read through the Texas FMV Laws thread (see my signature block below), it seem you might have.

As the OP of the TxFMV Laws thread, I have done a lot of homework on the whole topic and feel I can speak with some authority although.....

I am NOT a Lawyer, nor am I trying to render legal advice...
yada, yada, yada. ​

Ok that's my short-form legal disclaimer.


So, you are correct. TITLING a vehicle and REGISTERING a vehicle are two very separate formalities in the Great State of Texas and are defined in TWO distinctively separate parts of the TEXAS TRANSPORTATION CODE (aka: the LAW).

TITLING a vehicle merely causes the issuance of a piece of paper - a VERY OFFICIAL piece at that - which validates and certifies just who OWNS the vehicle.
NOTHING about or on a Title is relevant to whether a vehicle was once owned by Uncle Sam, or if it never was.
HOWEVER, the Titling LAW does state that any vehicle that was a part of ANY COUNTRY'S MILITARY SHALL - I repeat SHALL - be issued a Title by the TxDMV. Period... That's it... FINAL!!! NO EXCEPTIONS (except maybe a close encounter with an County Vehicle Official who thinks they know more than they demonstratively do actually know - Which seems to be what you found at your local County Office.)

REGISTERING any vehicle in the Great State of Texas is typically done during the same visit to the County Office - although you certainly CAN get a Title WITHOUT proceeding to the Registration step. As with a vehicle not yet made roadworthy, Registration needs only be done prior to actually driving it ON THE ROADS of this State or its jurisdictional subdivisions - County, City, Toll Roads, Etc..
REGISTERING a TxFMV is clearly process defined in the applicable LAW. But please bear in mind that few County Vehicle Office clerks ever get to handle any TxFMV's and seldom got adequate training on handling TxFMV's. That is precisely why I authored the TxFMV LAWS thread here on the SteelSoldiers website. To quote Albert Einstein: "The same intelligence used to create a problem CANNOT be used to correct the problem." Hence, we as TxFMV owners/operators MUST be smarter than the professionals.

------------------------------------------
I referred to this one reply in my opening statements.....Earlier @MGVFD posted this:

"As posted above. If you want tag etc you'll need to have the vehicle inspected first before you get the title transfered. Ran into this earlier this year with a old civilian truck.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk "
-------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what "inspection" MGVFD is referring to, but the standard SAFETY INSPECTION which we are all so familiar with DOES NOT APPLY to, nor can it be "required" for a TxFMV according to the ACTUAL LAW. If this quoted reply was implying that you need a SAFETY INSPECTION prior to titling a vehicle, then this is absolutely incorrect as it might apply to TxFMV's. I hope he will chime back in and clear up any confusion on this.




I do not see any mention in your post, nor in your signature, exactly what kind of FMV you are trying to make legal. Your mention of weights indicated it is a larger truck, but if you could please provide that info it could be very helpful in avoiding non-applicable discussions and comments. THANK YOU.
With that being said, your most powerful ammunition in "proving" you have a FMV is simply to take a photo of the DATA PLATE. Presuming your vehicle was once Uncle Sam's (and not some other country's military), it SHOULD be branded with his name on it. He loves to put his name on all his property. In fact, the typical DATA PLATE boldly proclaims PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVERNMENT or some such intimidating language. It should also bear the VIN and other nomenclature adequate in detail to "prove" that your vehicle was in fact once your Uncle's prized possession.





SO.... Without retyping the entire TxFMV LAWS thread, these are my thoughts in a nutshell. Other's have contributed good advice and I won't bore you with repetition there either.
The key suggestions:
- Ask for a supervisor - if necessary TOGETHER call TxDMV in Austin for some education;
- Try a different County's Vehicle Registration Office - one where members here have had successful experiences;
- ALWAYS be kind and speak softly but with the strength of knowledge. (Re: Dale Carnegie's book: HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE);
- Report your further adventures here for the education of the masses.

If you have any questions, please feel free to post them here, send me a message, or even give me a phone call. My contact info is readily found in the Sunday Sermon's thread linked below.

Be blessed in the journey.
John Bariou
San Angelo, Texas, USA




.

 

[MGVFD]

Kenn,
Your post has already drawn several knowledgeable and experience-based valid replies and guidance. (There is just one reply I read with a glaring inaccuracy which I will address later.)

Although you haven't specifically stated that you have read through the Texas FMV Laws thread (see my signature block below), it seem you might have.

As the OP of the TxFMV Laws thread, I have done a lot of homework on the whole topic and feel I can speak with some authority although.....

I am NOT a Lawyer, nor am I trying to render legal advice...
yada, yada, yada. ​

Ok that's my short-form legal disclaimer.


So, you are correct. TITLING a vehicle and REGISTERING a vehicle are two very separate formalities in the Great State of Texas and are defined in TWO distinctively separate parts of the TEXAS TRANSPORTATION CODE (aka: the LAW).

TITLING a vehicle merely causes the issuance of a piece of paper - a VERY OFFICIAL piece at that - which validates and certifies just who OWNS the vehicle.
NOTHING about or on a Title is relevant to whether a vehicle was once owned by Uncle Sam, or if it never was.
HOWEVER, the Titling LAW does state that any vehicle that was a part of ANY COUNTRY'S MILITARY SHALL - I repeat SHALL - be issued a Title by the TxDMV. Period... That's it... FINAL!!! NO EXCEPTIONS (except maybe a close encounter with an County Vehicle Official who thinks they know more than they demonstratively do actually know - Which seems to be what you found at your local County Office.)

REGISTERING any vehicle in the Great State of Texas is typically done during the same visit to the County Office - although you certainly CAN get a Title WITHOUT proceeding to the Registration step. As with a vehicle not yet made roadworthy, Registration needs only be done prior to actually driving it ON THE ROADS of this State or its jurisdictional subdivisions - County, City, Toll Roads, Etc..
REGISTERING a TxFMV is clearly process defined in the applicable LAW. But please bear in mind that few County Vehicle Office clerks ever get to handle any TxFMV's and seldom got adequate training on handling TxFMV's. That is precisely why I authored the TxFMV LAWS thread here on the SteelSoldiers website. To quote Albert Einstein: "The same intelligence used to create a problem CANNOT be used to correct the problem." Hence, we as TxFMV owners/operators MUST be smarter than the professionals.

------------------------------------------
I referred to this one reply in my opening statements.....Earlier @MGVFD posted this:

"As posted above. If you want tag etc you'll need to have the vehicle inspected first before you get the title transfered. Ran into this earlier this year with a old civilian truck.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk "
-------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what "inspection" MGVFD is referring to, but the standard SAFETY INSPECTION which we are all so familiar with DOES NOT APPLY to, nor can it be "required" for a TxFMV according to the ACTUAL LAW. If this quoted reply was implying that you need a SAFETY INSPECTION prior to titling a vehicle, then this is absolutely incorrect as it might apply to TxFMV's. I hope he will chime back in and clear up any confusion on this.




I do not see any mention in your post, nor in your signature, exactly what kind of FMV you are trying to make legal. Your mention of weights indicated it is a larger truck, but if you could please provide that info it could be very helpful in avoiding non-applicable discussions and comments. THANK YOU.
With that being said, your most powerful ammunition in "proving" you have a FMV is simply to take a photo of the DATA PLATE. Presuming your vehicle was once Uncle Sam's (and not some other country's military), it SHOULD be branded with his name on it. He loves to put his name on all his property. In fact, the typical DATA PLATE boldly proclaims PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVERNMENT or some such intimidating language. It should also bear the VIN and other nomenclature adequate in detail to "prove" that your vehicle was in fact once your Uncle's prized possession.





SO.... Without retyping the entire TxFMV LAWS thread, these are my thoughts in a nutshell. Other's have contributed good advice and I won't bore you with repetition there either.
The key suggestions:
- Ask for a supervisor - if necessary TOGETHER call TxDMV in Austin for some education;
- Try a different County's Vehicle Registration Office - one where members here have had successful experiences;
- ALWAYS be kind and speak softly but with the strength of knowledge. (Re: Dale Carnegie's book: HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE);
- Report your further adventures here for the education of the masses.

If you have any questions, please feel free to post them here, send me a message, or even give me a phone call. My contact info is readily found in the Sunday Sermon's thread linked below.

Be blessed in the journey.
John Bariou
San Angelo, Texas, USA




.

Cold warrior. The tax assessor would not issue tags or plates unless the vehicle was inspected first. That is all. There are a lot of better opinions offered. Just agreeing with those who posted before me.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

 

[kenn]

Kenn,
Your post has already drawn several knowledgeable and experience-based valid replies and guidance. (There is just one reply I read with a glaring inaccuracy which I will address later.)

Although you haven't specifically stated that you have read through the Texas FMV Laws thread (see my signature block below), it seem you might have.

*snip*

Yes, I read your thread before I even purchased a truck as I wanted to know what I was up against. For the record, M35A2. I did have all the paperwork required with me but she seemed like she knew what she was doing and her boss "backed her up". I tried to reason with her but figured it best to go back and gather my thoughts and go at them again. I'm going to get a weight at a CAT station in the morning (one of the locations they gave me as public certified) and there is another DMV very close to there. It's in downtown Georgetown and from what I remember going there years ago, it is tight so I'll have to scope out a place to park. I have all I need if they will just do what they are supposed to do. I have:

Pictures of the vehicle outside and the data plate with the VIN
signed title from seller
bill of sale from seller
130u signed from the seller
proof of insurance
VIN certification (in lieu of safety inspection) form
Application for Former Military License Plate
I will have a certified weight form in the morning.

I will do as instructed here and tell clerk to look under "antique" to find the right choice as well as ask them politely to call Austin if they have a question. I am a very polite/nice person by nature and don't fly off the handle so I'm sure I can get it done now that I know I have everything in hand.

Thanks again

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Yes, I read your thread before I even purchased a truck as I wanted to know what I was up against. For the record, M35A2. I did have all the paperwork required with me but she seemed like she knew what she was doing and her boss "backed her up". I tried to reason with her but figured it best to go back and gather my thoughts and go at them again. I'm going to get a weight at a CAT station in the morning (one of the locations they gave me as public certified) and there is another DMV very close to there. It's in downtown Georgetown and from what I remember going there years ago, it is tight so I'll have to scope out a place to park. I have all I need if they will just do what they are supposed to do. I have:

Pictures of the vehicle outside and the data plate with the VIN
signed title from seller
bill of sale from seller
130u signed from the seller
proof of insurance
VIN certification (in lieu of safety inspection) form
Application for Former Military License Plate
I will have a certified weight form in the morning.

I will do as instructed here and tell clerk to look under "antique" to find the right choice as well as ask them politely to call Austin if they have a question. I am a very polite/nice person by nature and don't fly off the handle so I'm sure I can get it done now that I know I have everything in hand.

Thanks again

Overkill is under rated and you've got all your bases covered. If they continue to give you trouble let me know and I can call Waco (upper CoC) and get them up to speed on the FMV regulations.

The weight slip is a relatively new thing for vehicles without weights on their titles and happen to be 10,000 lbs or more so you're not being targeted.. just caught in the net. I have to deal with this every title and SF-97. Luckily my tax office has changed their mind about weights on SF-97 and will take them as printed.

 

[M813rc]

Kenn, since you indicated you are applying for a FMV plate, this isn't necessary for you, but I'll add it anyway for other folks who might read the thread.

Texas will let you register a military vehicle by any number/letter combination painted (or stickered) anywhere on the vehicle if it is consistent with service markings, providing it is at least 2" tall and in a contrasting colour. This includes Army registrations inside the door.
If you choose to register this way, you need to take a picture clearly showing the marking on the vehicle to the DMV with your other paperwork.

One also needs to understand the definition of "display" for the particular section of the traffic code that applies - for normal civilian vehicles, "display" is spelled out as having to have your registration sticker affixed to the inside lower portion of the drivers side of the windshield.
Under Antiques, which includes former military vehicles of any year, "display" is specifically defined as being able to produce the sticker to show a peace officer upon request, which means carrying it in a folder or whatever inside the vehicle with your insurance card, etc. You can stick it on the window if you really really want to, but you are not required to.

I will also point out yet again that FMV registration in Texas is, like antiques, for limited use - events of public interest such as parades, car shows, etc., travelling to and from such events, and for maintenance purposes. You can't legally drive it as your daily commute vehicle, or to pick up gravel or whatever. Case law says you can drive it to work once a week to maintain the batteries and keep everything lubricated (maintenance).

The traffic code for the State of Texas is a thick and convoluted book (as I'm sure all other State's are too), and like military technical manuals, you sorta have to know how to read it to get all of the information required - like knowing "display" means different things in different sections.

Cheers

 

[kenn]

Thanks! Success. I went to the main office and it went through without a single question. Five minutes with the clerk (and an hour of waiting) and I was out of there. It was almost 100 outside on the way home so inside the easy-bake oven cab was brutal. I have lots and lots and lots of things to address on this machine as I go forward but at least I'm now legal.

I thought about choosing/putting something numerical on it but then decided to just go with the plate. I was in the Army for a brief period but ended up not going into any kind of combat (lucky as my unit did deploy shortly after I got out). I didn't drive a deuce but instead hummers as my MOS was MP. Putting something on the truck that didn't honor some group or mission it was involved in seemed kind of off to me. Instead, I'll eventually paint this one the right paint code and get it as close to "restored" as reasonable and put a big white star on the door or something along those lines.

Thanks to everyone here for the suggestions!

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Cold warrior. The tax assessor would not issue tags or plates unless the vehicle was inspected first. That is all. There are a lot of better opinions offered. Just agreeing with those who posted before me.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

I've gone back and reread your post. I think I missed the "civilian vehicle" aspect of your experience.

Texas Former Military Vehicles (a separate sub-class much akin to Antique Vehicles) are exempt from many details of the Texas Transportation Code through specific waivers of "standard practice" as they are otherwise applied to most other "civilian" vehicles.

If you have time, grab a huge mug of coffee and read through the TxFMV LAWS thread linked in my signature block below. Therein are detailed those many exemptions over numerous Chapters of the Transportation Code. Reading through that thread will shed some light on the difference treatment of FMV's from the norm.

Let me now what you think.

John

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Thanks! Success. I went to the main office and it went through without a single question. Five minutes with the clerk (and an hour of waiting) and I was out of there. It was almost 100 outside on the way home so inside the easy-bake oven cab was brutal. I have lots and lots and lots of things to address on this machine as I go forward but at least I'm now legal.

I thought about choosing/putting something numerical on it but then decided to just go with the plate. I was in the Army for a brief period but ended up not going into any kind of combat (lucky as my unit did deploy shortly after I got out). I didn't drive a deuce but instead hummers as my MOS was MP. Putting something on the truck that didn't honor some group or mission it was involved in seemed kind of off to me. Instead, I'll eventually paint this one the right paint code and get it as close to "restored" as reasonable and put a big white star on the door or something along those lines.

Thanks to everyone here for the suggestions!

Congratulations!!!

I was away from my computer and other devices with little time to reply since my last post.

Looks like you'll soon be ready to CONVOY UP!

Again, C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! !

John

 

[Barrman]

Glad you got what you wanted. One tip for summer driving the M35. Raise the windows and close the side vents. Then open the windshield as much as you can stand. Once you get above 20 mph it will feel cool.

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but it works. I drove a M35 down I-10 from Las Cruses to Sonora one summer day above 110° and the back of my shirt was dry when I stopped. There is no help for in town driving however.