Challenging the State of Louisiana on Humvee Restrictions

[sue]

And signed an agreement? Not us

 

[simp5782]

And signed an agreement? Not us

Because the Department of Defense and the Defense Logistics agency made it as that and left it up to the state. Some states like Tennessee will change the model of the military vehicle to a different type to comply with their Non 17 digit vin #. Such as a homemade/repurposed/Special As long as it meets the requirements that a homemade vehicle does then some states will allow it. This is further secured by a little letter from the DLA stating the safety equipment the HMMWV is equipped with.

In regards to the meaning of the "offroad use only"

"The (Department of Defense) has determined that this is a prudent measure when vehicles do not meet the (federal vehicle safety standards) in order to alert state licensing authorities of the nature of the vehicle," Susan Lowe, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Defense Logistics Agency, told the Associated Press through an email. "The ultimate decision on whether a state will license these vehicles for on-road use is a decision within discretion of state licensing authorities."

 

[porkysplace]

And signed an agreement? Not us

Way back in 2014 before the first batch was sold they were advertised they would not be "street legal".

https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...army-humvees-for-sale-to-the-public-17540692/

https://jalopnik.com/military-will-finally-sell-used-humvees-to-the-public-s-1671735866

 

[sue]

Man I really hope my state DMV does not read that 2014
popular mechanics article or we could be screwed.

 

[98G]

Suggestion -

Instead of forcing a positive interpretation of somewhat grey policy, why not just lobby for black letter law stating that military surplus vehicles, to include hmmwvs, are eligible to be licensed for normal use?

A black letter law won't be subject to later reinterpretation by some hostile beaurocrat...

Edit to add - simp's quoted paragraph says it all, right from the source....

 

[Ripsaw]

You mean the ones that bought them with the understanding and signed a agreement that
they were sold as "OFF ROAD ONLY" and now want to drive on the highways ?

As I told the OMV, that is the opinion of a used car salesman written on the gov planet site, and means nothing. It is a mere disclaimer to keep them from being sued if someone in commiefornia buys one and gets on Interstate 5 and gets stopped or ticketed for some violation of smog devices, or other things.
The facts, have already been posted numerous times, directly from the MIL STD I posted. They do meet or exceed all FMVSS. There was no contract signed or agreed to by anyone, as far as I know. A contract requires 4 essential elements. Google is your friend. There was no meeting of the minds. As Al Capone posted, writing they were being "offered" is not the same as writing, these are not for highway use. Which btw, is still nothing more than an uneducated opinion. Certainly not fact, when we have the evidence to prove they are.

Because the Department of Defense and the Defense Logistics agency made it as that and left it up to the state. Some states like Tennessee will change the model of the military vehicle to a different type to comply with their Non 17 digit vin #. Such as a homemade/repurposed/Special As long as it meets the requirements that a homemade vehicle does then some states will allow it. This is further secured by a little letter from the DLA stating the safety equipment the HMMWV is equipped with.

In regards to the meaning of the "offroad use only"

"The (Department of Defense) has determined that this is a prudent measure when vehicles do not meet the (federal vehicle safety standards) in order to alert state licensing authorities of the nature of the vehicle," Susan Lowe, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Defense Logistics Agency, told the Associated Press through an email. "The ultimate decision on wh"

Exactly, but it has always been up to the state, as long as they do not try to regulate more requirements than the FMVSS already has.

Way back in 2014 before the first batch was sold they were advertised they would not be "street legal".

https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...army-humvees-for-sale-to-the-public-17540692/

https://jalopnik.com/military-will-finally-sell-used-humvees-to-the-public-s-1671735866

Just another opinion, uneducated opinion and disclaimer to keep them from getting in hot water, because they did not understand the law.

Man I really hope my state DMV does not read that 2014
popular mechanics article or we could be screwed.

Don't worry sue, no problem. Your DMV can surely read and understand the Federal Statute. It's likely they don't want to be accused of and charged for breaking the law either. As soon as we have this worked out, it will set precedents that all DMV's should follow. For a long time now, bureaucrats have been ordering people to do things, and nobody ask any questions, they just did it. No more. They do not like being challenged or questioned, even if they are wrong. That has to stop. Logic will prevail.

Suggestion -

Instead of forcing a positive interpretation of somewhat grey policy, why not just lobby for black letter law stating that military surplus vehicles, to include hmmwvs, are eligible to be licensed for normal use?

A black letter law won't be subject to later reinterpretation by some hostile beaurocrat...

Edit to add - simp's quoted paragraph says it all, right from the source....

No need, it already is law under the NHTSA in concert with the DOT and FMVSS, and the Humvee passes with flying colors. Sometimes I think the States think we are all going to gather an army of them and use them against them, or some other paranoid psychosis or delusions. How else can it be explained? Look at all the jeeps on the road. Nobody used those to do bad things with....or maybe it's the camo. Scary military vehicle, like scary looking "assault rifles"....Go figure.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Way back in 2014 before the first batch was sold they were advertised they would not be "street legal".

https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...army-humvees-for-sale-to-the-public-17540692/

https://jalopnik.com/military-will-finally-sell-used-humvees-to-the-public-s-1671735866

WOW Popular Mechanics said so it must be so...... They also said this:
"According to the report, each will have been inspected for defects (and presumably fixed) and stripped of their "military characteristics."

For someone that likes to get threads locked about titling and registering these vehicles, you sure do post a lot in them. What's your deal against people using their property as for intended use?

 

[porkysplace]

As I told the OMV, that is the opinion of a used car salesman written on the gov planet site, and means nothing. It is a mere disclaimer to keep them from being sued if someone in commiefornia buys one and gets on Interstate 5 and gets stopped or ticketed for some violation of smog devices, or other things.
The facts, have already been posted numerous times, directly from the MIL STD I posted. They do meet or exceed all FMVSS. There was no contract signed or agreed to by anyone, as far as I know. A contract requires 4 essential elements. Google is your friend. There was no meeting of the minds. As Al Capone posted, writing they were being "offered" is not the same as writing, these are not for highway use. Which btw, is still nothing more than an uneducated opinion. Certainly not fact, when we have the evidence to prove they are.


Exactly, but it has always been up to the state, as long as they do not try to regulate more requirements than the FMVSS already has.


Just another opinion, uneducated opinion and disclaimer to keep them from getting in hot water, because they did not understand the law.


Don't worry sue, no problem. Your DMV can surely read and understand the Federal Statute. It's likely they don't want to be accused of and charged for breaking the law either. As soon as we have this worked out, it will set precedents that all DMV's should follow. For a long time now, bureaucrats have been ordering people to do things, and nobody ask any questions, they just did it. No more. They do not like being challenged or questioned, even if they are wrong. That has to stop. Logic will prevail.


No need, it already is law under the NHTSA in concert with the DOT and FMVSS, and the Humvee passes with flying colors. Sometimes I think the States think we are all going to gather an army of them and use them against them, or some other paranoid psychosis or delusions. How else can it be explained? Look at all the jeeps on the road. Nobody used those to do bad things with....or maybe it's the camo. Scary military vehicle, like scary looking "assault rifles"....Go figure.

That's your OPINION and somehow you think it is more important than anyone elses.

The Fact is many of these pushes to get HMMWV's plated is hurting the rest of the MV community.
They are trying to push a bad bill here in michigan that hurt use of all other MV's.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Details, Details.
I wonder why he wants to title in Louisana anyway , since he lists his location
as Mississippi.

I wonder why you're so against his efforts when your location says Michigan. Maybe you just want to see the hobby burn since your condescending posts are against any efforts to remedy the problem. The man is making an effort to enact change in a way that could help owners in other states. Are you really going to be that heckler in the back of the crowd that is against everything, just because he can be?

Do you even own a HMMWV? I don't...but I see a man trying to make legislative change. That's the proper way to do it. Legislative change was done in Georgia by some great members here several years ago and I still appreciate their efforts to this day. I guess you don't mind the government whittling away the list of vehicles you can drive...

 

[Swamp Donkey]

That's your OPINION and somehow you think it is more important than anyone elses.

The Fact is many of these pushes to get HMMWV's plated is hurting the rest of the MV community.
They are trying to push a bad bill here in michigan that hurt use of all other MV's.

I don't see you making an effort to stop it. Complaining about the problem on a forum is not going to change anything.

 

[doghead]

Please stick to the topic, and no bickering.

Simply ignore comments you do not like or appreciate.

Otherwise, this site is a big bitch fest and we are not going there.

 

[porkysplace]

I wonder why you're so against his efforts when your location says Michigan. Maybe you just want to see the hobby burn since your condescending posts are against any efforts to remedy the problem. The man is making an effort to enact change in a way that could help owners in other states. Are you really going to be that heckler in the back of the crowd that is against everything, just because he can be?

Do you even own a HMMWV? I don't...but I see a man trying to make legislative change. That's the proper way to do it. Legislative change was done in Georgia by some great members here several years ago and I still appreciate their efforts to this day. I guess you don't mind the government whittling away the list of vehicles you can drive...

I am well aware of the issues in georgia I also supported it and I also remember a lot of the financial support came from
out of state ( including my donations ) as a lot of the GA MV community didn't donate . I also remember 2 of the Key people behind were originally from michigan , 1 from the midland area and 1 from north of grand rapids.

Also undysworld was a major source of information in the ga battle , and was a major player
in first first attempt to restrict mv's in wisconsin where it all started.

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Porky.
Let it go.
They don't get it.
Stop feeding them.
In the name of trying to fix something that wasn't broke they will ruin it for everyone we are seeing it happen everywhere.
Step away from the keyboard.
Maybe by the time he hits 10 posts he will move on.

 

[simp5782]

The challenge most states have is this. The federal government has stated that it should not be used on the highway due to it not being up to safety regulations. The state therefore sticks its neck out for a lawsuit when someone gets in a serious injury accident on the highway and it being not up to safety standards. The NTSB would have a field day if they did a vehicle dissection and found something missing that should have been a safety feature as determined by the state's requirements. Then it is a buffet on the lawsuit that person or person's family would have.

I would draft a statement of safety for a HMMWV to be submitted to your legislator to go along with the bill of getting any HMMWV street legal. Such as seat belt type, anchor location, anchor type, and other items similar to what is required on a homemade vehicle or any other " current age " vehicle. Safety standards of the 1970s and 80s actually would suffice.

 

[swbradley1]

I was away for a week on a whirlwind trip to Tampa and come back just in time to lock this thread.

Thank goodness.