Changes to the classifeds

[3dAngus]

There are no friends on CL.
Just tire kickers. Most annoying group of people in the world.

Anyway, toby said it best. What's a hack. I'm sure it is subject to interpretation in some manner. I have heard it used in so many different ways, referring to people, referring to annoying code, referring to intrusions. I never did understand the interpretation of hack, because there are so many of them, yet, I don't really want to get into it, and don't care. That is your business Andrew, not mine.

I would recommend you do answer the question though, because I'm sure about 90% of the people here have no idea what you're talking about. It might just open up another can of worms though, so I wish you the best of luck on that one.

And most of all, we ALL, and especially me, DO very much so appreciate all that you do. You're my hero! I probably don't express that enough, so there's another "atta boy" for ya, and one well deserved (and earned).

 

[patracy]

There are no friends on CL.
Just tire kickers. Most annoying group of people in the world.

Anyway, toby said it best. What's a hack. I'm sure it is subject to interpretation in some manner. I have heard it used in so many different ways, referring to people, referring to annoying code, referring to intrusions. I never did understand the interpretation of hack, because there are so many of them, yet, I don't really want to get into it, and don't care. That is your business Andrew, not mine.

I would recommend you do answer the question though, because I'm sure about 90% of the people here have no idea what you're talking about. It might just open up another can of worms though, so I wish you the best of luck on that one.

And most of all, we ALL, and especially me, DO very much so appreciate all that you do. You're my hero! I probably don't express that enough, so there's another "atta boy" for ya, and one well deserved (and earned).

I outlined the hack/modification/add-on in post #32.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ck-requested&p=1493014&viewfull=1#post1493014

But the quick and simple is this:
vBulletin provides the software we use on the site. It runs all the functions of the website/forum. It functions in a certain way out of the box. These hacks/modifications/add-ons are just that. Hacks, modifications, or add-ons to the base code. They're not supported by the vendor. And more often than not, they're not supported by the coder. This opens up a liability in the form of security and conflicts with the base software.

When the site was in such disarray and I started working, we had 30+ of these running. We're down to 13 now. And honestly two of them I'm planning on phasing out with the OS level security application I've added. (They block spambot registrations, which are now handled by the OS security I've added)

 

[3dAngus]

Well if you meant a software "patch", why didn't you just say so.

No ambiguity, no confusion, no negative connotations, all of which are in software hack.

I'm getting old! I just don't understand you young hacks.

 

[patracy]

Well if you meant a software "patch", why didn't you just say so.

No ambiguity, no confusion, no negative connotations, all of which are in software hack.

I'm getting old! I just don't understand you young hacks.

A patch would be a correction to the base code provided by the vendor.

*just to clear things up.

 

[3dAngus]

Thanks Andrew. It's always good to know about newer terms and applications and how they are perceived in todays world. I always knew the term patch and how it was written by vendors for operating systems, but never for applications like what we see here. The government could not function without engineering departments writing patches for their vendor written code. We did not always have the luxury of waiting on a vendor, or might not ou have had an ongoing working contract, so we made a living writing patches for our code that kept the birds flying. The use of work "hack" would get you thrown out of a lab, or had your security clearance come under scruntity. We don't hack software, nor do we advocate the use of hackers to break in or violate code. It has negative connonotations all the way around, and job security is not something you wish to take loosely when writing code in classified systems. I never heard anyone on any military installation using the work "hack" without looking over their shoulder. It was a software patch, and it was authorized as part of our job, and it was done with or without the permission of the vendor as a legitimate patch. You see, the vendors wrote the code, but we "owned it".

In my world, patches to software improvement are a way of life. They are fully tested in our labs using Independent Verification and Validation efforts that take a great deal of time and money, by seperate engineering teams prior to release. These are not unprofessionally written patches that simply go into software without full evaluation. They eventually get written into the next software update where a new software version is created, then, it is no longer a patch. Thus the confusion. I never liked the term hack, but never knew it carried the meaning you illustrate until I came on this site. I appreciate your patience with me.

 

[tobyS]

So a hack is a change to the vendors code that is not made or authorized by the base code developer. Have you asked them to make changes cooperatively? Does this software developer have competition?

 

[kubotaman]

Lots of sellers have full PM boxes. I think that it is a good idea for vehicles but when someone is selling tons of parts at one time you would not be able to say that you got your item as described.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

patracy is correct in regards to modifying modules, addons, or "hacks" to vBulletin as this can lead to many potential issues with the site. He has the right idea reducing them and I commend him for scaling it down this far functionally. That being said we need to work with what we have to solve the problems on hand.. resurfacing dead ads and reducing undercutting offers. I am not a vender but I do sell often enough when I come across a good deal or clean house. I believe the ad is the responsibility of the seller to maintain and more importantly update!..otherwise it becomes bloat.

Reading over this thread it appears the leading majority are looking at blocking users from posting on ads. Assuming that this was put into place it would stop a majority of the undercutting, but as said previously, it would deny the ability for users to publicly ask questions one wouldn't even consider initially. This is part of why we have a community..to share Q's and A's. Now a good seller could keep his ad updated with the latest Q's & A's from members through PMs but this taxes the inbox. From experience it can take up to 40 messages (20 inbox, 20 outbox) to work through coordinating a single time sensitive shipment or a recovery and with room for 250 total messages things will get fuller faster. Assuming this was not a problem and other means of communication were used outside of SS then the control of the ad itself must be addressed; time for editing a post. Half of my ads that I've sold or updated have been locked from editing due to time passed. This means I can post "Sold" to the ad extending it's life before pruning or notifying a mod for deletion but I can't delete it myself. It's my ad, I take initiative to clean up after myself, but no. I can see why the oldest of ads circulate to the top and this is one.

My personal opinion is to let OPs (those who create the original post) have the ability to fully edit their ad until it expires or is voluntarily deleted. It should be up to them if they want to allow users to post on their ads (not sure if possible with current vBulleting configuration, I don't know those details) or conduct business through the inbox system. Reduce the pruning time to weed out the old bloat posts if not temporarily. Forcibly making users unable to publicly ask questions about ads limits the sharing of info which goes against the community's purpose..so I believe.


Edit: I wish the feedback system was mainstay again.

 

[goodguyzy]

I vote for making it an option. I like reading others comments on the product.

 

[m16ty]

Lots of sellers have full PM boxes. I think that it is a good idea for vehicles but when someone is selling tons of parts at one time you would not be able to say that you got your item as described.

It's up to the members to manage their PM box. They could also put a email address in their add and a lot of members have their email in their profile.



My biggest pet peeve is people don't use the feedback system. Most of the comments in adds about how great the part they got is could just as easily be done in a feedback post. I've seen several adds lately where a member has sold many parts in a single add and only have very few feedback post. I also would encourage sellers to leave feedback on buyers, it seems to help encourage buyers to leave feedback too.

 

[patracy]

So a hack is a change to the vendors code that is not made or authorized by the base code developer. Have you asked them to make changes cooperatively? Does this software developer have competition?

Asking vB to work with 3rd party coders for their add ons would be akin to asking Microsoft to work with Google.

I vote for making it an option. I like reading others comments on the product.

The closest option I could do to make that happen is give users the ability to close their own thread. But it'd be confusing to know if something is still for sale or not.

Lots of sellers have full PM boxes. I think that it is a good idea for vehicles but when someone is selling tons of parts at one time you would not be able to say that you got your item as described.

That's something that's up to the user to manage. The system is smart enough to send the user a email when someone PM's them and their mailbox is full.

 

[eagle4g63]

As I am running late this morning and don't have time to read EVERY comment.....I apologize IF this has already been mentioned.....I happen to like the posting in the classifieds.....I think it is also an ethics thing, however the other side of the coin that isn't being addressed is the "I have dibs" on said item....let me explain:

I had answered an add pretty quick after I saw it listed...I responded the typical, "I'll take it, pm inbound"......my post is time stamped....so while PMing my details and asking about the way payment wanted to be handled, another member had just went straight to PM and asked for the item......now the dilemma.....who gets the item...well it was the seller that decided that since I had "answered" the add first I would get it.

I know it also would be an ethics thing, but if we can't see who has put "dibs" on buying an item first, we can't be sure that any type of favoritism isn't in play......Also I know that I have not replyed to adds that I have seen where 1 or more people have said I want it.....that too would help keep down clutter.

 

[ATPTac]

Another thing to consider with only allowing PMs to the seller is what happens when their inbox is full? At that point there's no way to get in touch with them if the thread is closed to posting. I guess it would be up to them to keep their inbox cleaned out when posting an ad?

 

[LiveFreeOrDieTryn2B]

I think that would work just to PM the poster.I wanted to ask if it might be possible to make a trailer only section in the classifieds. I thought that might help and will try to keep up on my ads.

 

[ATPTac]

I think that would work just to PM the poster.I wanted to ask if it might be possible to make a trailer only section in the classifieds. I thought that might help and will try to keep up on my ads.

That and a wheel/tire section possibly?

 

[gringeltaube]

.....who gets the item...well it was the seller that decided that since I had "answered" the add first I would get it.
.....................................

"Who ever gets it" ... should be the seller's-only decision, and NOT made public IMHO.
No more posts like "I want it...", I'll take it..."; "PM sent"; etc...

G.

 

[LiveFreeOrDieTryn2B]

I agree and just a thought also maybe if a seller has a specialised item i.e. spin on kits/rim adapters maybe ad a link for product specs,how tos and or reviews might help overall forum.

 

[porkysplace]

The idea of only letting the poster of the ad post seems like the best way to do it , along with only allowing edits to the posts with 1 bump allowed every 7 days ( as the rules now are ) . The other morning a vendor bumped his ad a 7am them 45 minutes later he bumped the same ad again " because he forgot to add info " this should have been done with a edit of the 7am post . Some of the vendors are the worst violators with breaking the classified rules .
The vendors should be required to use the vendors forum and keep the classifieds seperate for premium members to use . Even CL has created a section for dealers to use.

 

[patracy]

As I am running late this morning and don't have time to read EVERY comment.....I apologize IF this has already been mentioned.....I happen to like the posting in the classifieds.....I think it is also an ethics thing, however the other side of the coin that isn't being addressed is the "I have dibs" on said item....let me explain:

I had answered an add pretty quick after I saw it listed...I responded the typical, "I'll take it, pm inbound"......my post is time stamped....so while PMing my details and asking about the way payment wanted to be handled, another member had just went straight to PM and asked for the item......now the dilemma.....who gets the item...well it was the seller that decided that since I had "answered" the add first I would get it.

I know it also would be an ethics thing, but if we can't see who has put "dibs" on buying an item first, we can't be sure that any type of favoritism isn't in play......Also I know that I have not replyed to adds that I have seen where 1 or more people have said I want it.....that too would help keep down clutter.

Two different sources of communication, yet they still both have timestamps. The seller should offer it to the first timestamp IMO. But funneling everything via PM would make things easier for a seller to see who gets it IMO.

Another thing to consider with only allowing PMs to the seller is what happens when their inbox is full? At that point there's no way to get in touch with them if the thread is closed to posting. I guess it would be up to them to keep their inbox cleaned out when posting an ad?

Already addressed in the thread. It's up to the seller to manage their communication.

I think that would work just to PM the poster.I wanted to ask if it might be possible to make a trailer only section in the classifieds. I thought that might help and will try to keep up on my ads.

That and a wheel/tire section possibly?

Sorry, I'm not keen on futher splintering the forums. Trailers are a tagged item for use on the roads, often states title them as well. So they belong in the vehicles section. As to tires/wheels, those would be parts.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Do like e-bay. 30 day listings, OP can add questions and their answers to the listing, but no-one else can add anything. Buyer and seller told to use feedback system.