CJ10a Flightline Tug --> 4wd Pickup Truck

[jeffhuey1n]

Finally a GOOD use for those POS tugs. That is as a tug, they couldn't haul nuttin' cause their gearing was all wrong for what we needed them for. Great to see you guys making 'em into true Jeeps!

 

[gavan]

I have talked with a number of people that run 37s and 4.88s, and while it is not the best combo in the world, they have been making it work OK with the stock sd33.

I am actually seriously considering a VW TDI swap with a toyota five speed manual, so the 4.88's should work a lot better for that. With some simple fixes, I should be able to get 150 HP out of it, better than the 90 from the stock motor!!

I cant bear to see it converted to gas, but i am happy about some more power.

 

[acruxksa]

I have talked with a number of people that run 37s and 4.88s, and while it is not the best combo in the world, they have been making it work OK with the stock sd33.

I am actually seriously considering a VW TDI swap with a toyota five speed manual, so the 4.88's should work a lot better for that. With some simple fixes, I should be able to get 150 HP out of it, better than the 90 from the stock motor!!

I cant bear to see it converted to gas, but i am happy about some more power.

Guess it's all about what you want. I can easily see 37's and a 4:1 Tcase working ok offroad, but just can't fathom how 37's with an SD33 NA and 4.88's on the hwy would be acceptable unless you had a 2.5" exhaust and a better intake. Even then A pyrometer is going to be a must because with 34's as soon as I hit any hills of significance it jumps from 850 to 1150 in a matter of seconds and will easily keep going up if I don't back off the throttle. Then again, some of the NA scout owners believe you can't melt the pistons in the non turbo version of the SD33 and at least one of them claims he puts the throttle to the floor and runs his scout at the gov limit for hours at a time.

I like the VW TDI and it's power potential seems ideal for the CJ10A. I've seen it put in a suzuki samarai before, but not a jeep, any good tranny adapter links? Not that I plan to swap, but it doesn't hurt to stay informed about any options out there.

 

[jamesfrom180]

I know I'm resurrecting an old thread. But "I did search" and did not find much.

Gavan, Are you around here at all? Curious how the rig turned out.
Rebelpride, I assume you are back home? either way saw your tug up for sale and sorry to see you haven't got that dream done.

I really do want to go the rout of adding a 101 bed to one of these ugly ducks. So I am hoping someone has alittle bit more to add to this thread.

 

[gavan]

I kinda took a couple huge steps backwards and found some cracks in the frame so I stripped it all the way down and started fabricating the rear of the frame from scratch. Things are going slowly. I do have a Cummins 4BT for the truck, along with a NV 4500.

I have been putting my progress here

Project: Daily Driver Tug - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

and I was planning on updating this when I had some interesting military stuff to add, and I feel like I killed a lot of the military tech when I ripped out the original motor and shoved in the 4BT. I do not feel that bad, though... It will get along much nicer with 250 HP/600 FT/LBS than it will with 100 HP/200 FT/LBS!

 

[jamesfrom180]

Well you did keep the ugly headlight fenders (military), kept the cj cab (military), and added the M101 bed. I think the military should build this truck along the lines you are maybe as a replacement for that Piece of equipment they are trying to use with the osprey.

One questions why did you not take and move the axle humps on the frame back and weld those hudge tubes into the frame? I know there was a round about route you took but now why not build the frame? Was it just easier to land the trailer bed?

 

[gavan]

It also has M1028 axles and HMMWV wheels and tires, so I guess it is mostly military! Just screwed together a little different...

I didn't move anything in the fabrication of the frame, I just hacked off the entire rear of the vehicle and made it all new. The fact that I nearly broke the truck in half hoisting it up on a lift made that decision a little easier! It was very badly cracked. 2x6 box tube happened to fit just about perfectly, so I used that to extend the frame under the cab, then stacked a piece on top to space the bed correctly under the cab. I made it all to Chevy frame widths and heights, so I used late model Chevy springs and and aftermarket shackle reversal brackets to make the rear suspension on the simple frame easy.

The flat beam frame also simplified mounting of the trailer body, it mounts just like it would on a trailer and the entire floor is supported.

The front half of the frame was in good shape, and holds a lot of stuff that would be a pain to fabricate, like steering box mounts, body mounts, transmision mounts, sway bar mounts, etc., to it stayed instead of making an entire frame from scratch.

 

[jamesfrom180]

Oh I appreciate not monkeying with the front half of the frame. I figured you used the flat box to mount the trailer bed to. Good call on the Chevy springs.

One questions isn't the frame close to the wide track jeep. Like the wagoneer? I'm just curious with the M1028 axles how is the tracking.

 

[gavan]

The frame is some weird export thing, everything on it is designed to be left or right hand drive. It is close to the wagoneer frame. The springs are 32 inches apart, which is a half inch off of the 1028 spring pad width, but a with a little slotting of the springs they fit just fine. You do not have to outbord them like you would with a CJ frame.

The huge offset of the HMMWV rims helps keep my overall width down.

 

[jamesfrom180]

Seems it really has worked out well. I had to describe this protect over the weekend and I said it basically reminded me of one of the land cruiser pickups in Aus.

I think I would have started with a dodge 2500 and started swaping components. If you were to do it again and end up where you are now, how would you change your set up. that ole 20/20 hindsight thing

 

[gavan]

I have thought about it a lot and I still might change some things, but I am pretty happy with where it is. Pretty funny you mention the landcruiser pickup. I have been reading FJ45 builds to get inspiration for this one and I am using a fj45 headache rack on the bed. The landcruiser pickups are pretty cool!

I looked for a complete Dodge pickup when I was looking for vehicles, but the prices were pretty steep. Even down here in Texas it was hard to find a runner for less than 3000 bucks, with less than 200,000 miles. I could have sold off a lot of parts to make some money back, but I was still looking at a lot of money for a donor. Next problem was getting a first gen Dodge or a second gen Dodge. First Gens have have the correct drop axle and leaf springs, which I wanted, but they have a pretty bad manual transmission and the VE pumped Cummins was not the most desirable. Second Gen cummins had a p-pumped motor that made a lot more power, but the differential was on the other side, and the front diff was nowhere near as strong as the older D60s, it had ball joints and unit bearings, while the older ones had stronger, cheaper and easier to service kingpins and spindle bearings.

Next problem with the Dodge donor is the 6BT itself. I could physically fit the motor in the engine bay, but it would have made everything a pain in the arse in the long run. It would have been hard to fit a radiator, and the intercooler would have been nearly impossible. The bottom line is I just do not need that much motor in a Jeep based pickup truck.

The 4BT is shorter, lighter, and a much easier fit. Everything bolts up from the 6BT, so there are a lot of accessories available. It is also a little more fuel efficient and easy to get more power out of.


What really happened is I found a decent deal on someone else's project. He already had a NV4500, 4BT, all the adapters, the axles, and a bunch of other stuff shoved in a blazer. I took it off the blazer and shoved it in the CJ. If I had not gotten that deal, I may have gotten a Dodge truck chassis. But, at the same time, I was looking at VW 1.9 diesels and could have gone with one of them as well.


I try and keep my eyes open and look for good deals, then work off of the deals I get. I have found that flexibility keeps my projects at least somewhat affordable.

 

[wilber]

Gavan,
I really like the look of it with the military bed on the back.
Hugh

 

[gavan]

Gavan,
I really like the look of it with the military bed on the back.
Hugh

Thanks! It took a lot of time to get the dimensions of the bed down to where I was happy with it. I think it turned out pretty nice. Luckily the width worked out as well, narrowing the bed was not something I was looking forward to.

I was half thinking about calling this build "Baby Bobber" because it reminds me of a bobbed Deuce in about 1/2 scale. I cant fit a bobbed deuce, so I had to build something close

 

[jamesfrom180]

gavan I think we think alike man. Yeah I've been obsessing over a 4bt swap in alot of different platforms. From what I've found the 4bt was the way to go with the cj engine compartment. I currently own a 3rd gen dodge and have thrown away the unit hubs for some from dynatrac. Very happy with that one. I figured if you went with the dodge you would have major axle building anyway, but I guess you got it to work without all that fabrication. I see where you are coming from on the small deuce side. That head ache rack is going to look awsome.

 

[gavan]

Yeah, the 4BT is a pretty slick motor. I have helped put one on a Toyota FJ40 and FZJ80, both of them turned out very nicely. Good economy, big power potential, smallish package.

It is a tall sucker, so you really need a lift or a springover to make it work.

I have a HE341 turbo off of a 3rd gen and I am sourcing out some pump and injector mods, I think it will get out of its own way! It has ARP studs as well. Should be able to push about 35 PSI. Might do twins later just cause I can, but I dont want to get carried away. Or maybe I do. Not sure yet!

I want to do the dynatrac/EMS offroad swap on my Excursion, but I have a hard time stomaching 1500 bucks. I could swap in an entire axle for that, and get kingpins in the process. Oh well.

 

[jamesfrom180]

Yeah, I faced the same dilemma. But last year I got my set for 1200 out the door with labor. Good thing too because universals where almost gone and with the units hubs you sometimes will loose a wheel I hear. But, it was expensive but getting 2x4 millage is a big plus though it wont pay back until 2015 at current prices.

I've heard that the 4 bt is tall and alot of people whine about drive line angles with the slight offset. I would think when you set it up you could correct that. The spring over is a must to clear the oil pan your right about that. You need to through some pics up again. Especially if that 4bt is landed yet.

 

[jamesfrom180]

anyone interested here was a good write up. Think gavan may have covered it over on Pirate4x4

1985 Jeep CJ-10A: Wide-Eyed - Jp Magazine

 

[gavan]

Couple pics of the 4BT at home, and a mockup of the truck on the repaired frame. It is amazing how much high it sits when it is not cracked and bowing. It should settle down a couple inches, but I could always put 39s on it to fill out the wheelwells!

 

[jamesfrom180]

Yeah, Looks awesome!

I love the old school look of the 4BT and you did a good job of cleaning up the ole girl. The photos attached are of my friends Cj5 with uncut fenders and bubba stuffed 38s. Mine the green and black tiger striped is a Cj5/M38a1 that bubba cut up with 39" boggers. I figured this would give you some guess as to profiles. My boggers grab on my Dana 30 springs which are SOA. I found a m101 here in Jax. on the classifieds with fiberglass rails and bows with cover in A1 condition. The sellers ad still up. I was wondering if you were ever going to use the cover on the bed? I'm curious since that is the main route I would like to take. The truck is pretty tall already.

 

[gavan]

I would have to get some sewing work done on a stock top to fit it because my bed is about 18 inches shorter than the stock bed. I have thought about modifying a cover to fit it, but I have not gotten very far with the thought. It would have been much easier if I kept the bed the stock length, but the wheelbase would have been longer than the Excursion! I am pretty happy with the length the way it is. Besides shortening the top, it should fit just fine. That will depend, too, on how the headache rack from the FJ45 fits on the bed all. One battle at a time!!