Cold weather starting issue- starter relay?

[dburt]

Went out to start my '72 Kaiser multi-fuel, temp about 20 degrees. Hit the starter button. Nothing. Assumed low battery charge, checked batteries. Had 26 volts total, about 12.5v on one and 13.5v on the other one.
Deuce always started fine recently, coldest start was about 32 degrees. Is there a starter relay somewhere that is cold temp sensative? I have a military installed solar battery maintainer to keep the batteries up, so they are always well charged. Put the regular super-duper battery charger on the batteries, one at a time at 12v-12amp charge, charger showed batteries up to snuff, did not need charging. Turned on main switch again, hit starter button again, zip! Anyone have any good ideas where to start the diagnosis?

 

[doghead]

You need to start following the starting circuit with a test light or vom. I believe there is a flow chart of test procedures in TM 9-2320-361-24-1
Also, check your ground connections.

 

[DanMartin]

Did everything else come on when you flipped the battery switch? Low air buzzer, fuel pump, etc?

 

[dburt]

Yep DanM, everything else worked, buzzer, fuel pump, etc, so that made me think that maby there was a starter relay that was sensative to the cold, and maby the temp had dropped down enough to affect it. I pulled and pushed her into the shop tonight so she could warm up some overnight, and will try the start button in the morning to see what happens. Is there a starter relay on the starter, or is it under the dash or on the firewall? Yes, I know I should check out the TM, but being somewhat technologically challenged, it takes me forever to find info off my TM CD that I got from Alex at IdahoMotorPool when I bought the truck!

 

[doghead]

It took me 6 minutes to find and post the correct TM number for you. It has a step by step list of things to check if the starter does not function. Anyone that can read, can follow it. I don't see any need to post all of it's info here, when it can be found in the TM. If you can't take the time to read the TM(you have on cd or find it in the resource section on SS), I have nothing more to offer.

 

[cranetruck]

dburt, the start button energizes a 50-amp relay, which is mounted on the right side of the engine close to the firewall, it in turn operates the solenoid/relay on the starter motor.
If you can't hear the 50-amp relay click, then you may have a start button problem (bad connections or bad contacts, which could be effected by temperature). Firstly, reach behind the dash and check the start button wiring.

P.S. References to past posts and TMs takes the fun out of a relationship.

 

[sprucemt]

It took me 6 minutes to find and post the correct TM number for you. It has a step by step list of things to check if the starter does not function. Anyone that can read, can follow it. I don't see any need to post all of it's info here, when it can be found in the TM. If you can't take the time to read the TM(you have on cd or find it in the resource section on SS), I have nothing more to offer.

And the key code is what?

 

[cranetruck]

...... checked batteries. Had 26 volts total, about 12.5v on one and 13.5v on the other one..........I have a military installed solar battery maintainer to keep the batteries up.........

This should tell you that the Solargizer (I assume that's what you have), does not actually maintain the batteries properly. The prime job of the Solargizer is to desulfate batteries and sulfation occurs when batteries are kept below full charge.

A good battery maintainer will keep the two batteries at full charge and within millivolts of each other, which is important when they are charged from a 28 volt regulator. So, a good maintainer will keep batteries from sulfating and eliminate the need for a Solargizer in the first place.

 

[doghead]

P.S. References to past posts and TMs takes the fun out of a relationship.

I am not trying to take the fun out of helping a fellow MV owner(honest). In this particular situation, I really think that he can resolve his problem, easily, if he follows the procedures listed in the TM that I referenced.

I think that if he would follow the flow chart in chapter 2(field troubleshooting), aptly named " Starter will not crank", that he will easily find his problem and be able to fix it, and realize that I gave him the best help available, and have a new friend .

 

[cranetruck]

Okay, okay Eric, but think of it this way, if you two fellows are standing next to the deuce in question, would you just run and get the manual and hand it to him or try to explain the answer to the best of you knowledge first?

 

[doghead]

Here's whats in the TM. I agree that simply pointing out the TM# is not always enough, or seem like a friendly response. He really needs to look at it and then ask for specific help(his original question was, where to start). One of the ways that I have been learning the TM's myself, is posts like this. I like to read the posts and use them as a challenge to find the needed info in the TMs, then I can learn and help, all in one. I also very much understand feeling computer literately challenged. The reason I didn't just copy these and post them originally was, I new they would be too hard to read once they were resized .

 

[dburt]

I love all you guys, reminds me of my fellow siblings when I was a kid! All the advice is good and MUCH appreciated, and I am going out this morning to the shop and start the diagnosis, so thank you all so much for the good pointers, including where to find the flow chart doghead! The problem with being technologically challenged is that even if I find it, trying to get the computer and the printer to interface never seems to work, they have some sort of relationship issue I guess. And then, I have to write everything down since I can't seem to remember important stuff like I used to be able to do. So- what I really need is a good TM in print form, so I can open the book up, and stare at it until something sinks in. Maby that is what I better get when I get the bucks to buy them in print form. It's not fun getting old!! I'll post what I find out so maby others can learn from my experience. Thanks again guys!!

 

[Hammer]

Actually, having both a discussion on the issue, AND the correct TM is a HUGE thing for me.
When I SEARCH, I find a lot of posts that say to search. And some give a little anecdotal information on either what is wrong, or how to fix it.

This thread was great. It gave a decent description of the problem, the correct TM (which I know is a PITA to find sometimes!), and then later some good descriptions of the fix, along with some more troubleshooting information.

It also helps me because my switch did almost the same thing the other day, only about 20° outside, but first push of the button was silent. Waited a few seconds and it worked fine. But it got me to thinking about it becoming an issue.

Thanks to ALL. Good work, and not too much arguement

 

[grounded]

Mine kinda done the same but little diffrent. I went out to start it for the first time in a few weeks yesterday (about 5 weeks) and it would crank but not enough to start it was about 15* yesterday. Think i need to not let it sit so much during the winter. its about a 50/50 mix of WMO/Diesel. maybe more diesel.

This my first winter with one. and its not totally ready for the road yet. Is there anything else i should do means i kind of cant keep it inside a building at this moment?

 

[doghead]

Thanks to ALL. Good work, and not too much arguement

I never considered this as an argument, more like an intellectual discussion.

 

[dburt]

Can you say "TOAST"?! Found out the starter relay was cooked due to a disconnected/broken stud on the bottom, and a broken wire to the connection on the top. I can't figure out how it even started in such shape! As the pics show, the relay is attached to the engine block on the passenger side above the starter. A trip to Idaho Motor Pool and Frank fixed me up with a relay and I got a new starter buttom assembly based on Frank's recommendation since they go bad with alot of useage and/or age. Now the old gal starts fine! Maby someone, someday, can "go to school" on me with what I found about starter relays and starter button assemblies today with everyone's help. And yes doghead, I did look up the TM info, it only took me about 1/2 hour, I knew you would be proud of me!!

 

[doghead]

I'm glad you resolved your problem! Great pics too!

 

[mangus580]

Didya find it by poke & hope? or did the TM help?

 

[FMJ]

DH poked him

 

[jimmcld]

Did you notice that one side was from New York while the other was from Virginia? Wonder if that makes a difference in the way questions are answered?